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Re: CO2 issues

> Well,Just when I get all other areas of my tank where I want them...

It always happens dat way.

> This gang can argue all they want about high-pressure vs. low pressure CO2
> systems, but I have just had an all-fish death due to the "dump" of a
> "High-Pressure" system. I had 400 lbs of CO2 when I left for work this
> morning and tonight the can is empty. You can advertise all you want about
> how "safe" this type of system is if properly set up right, but the facts
> are if a system is safe it should NEVER (EVER!) do this.

Overall the owner is partly to blame in many cases but I like stuff to be
idiot proof, as I can be one and forget to clean things or set something
right etc. I have been down this road you have traveled. I have killed. Same
thing. I have had this happen more than once.
> No matter what anyone says ever again on this list I will stand on my head
> naked (and no one wants to see that, believe me) before I'll ever have
> anything positive to say about this type of system. I will also freverently
> anti-market this system because of this experience. This sucker is going in
> the garbage.

Save the stuff like the regulator/cylinder etc.

> Death toll is:
> 3 Large Discus (Best red Discus I've Ever seen, too)
> 20-30 Cardinals
> 20-30 Rummy nose
> 3 SAEs and,
> several OTOs

There's the cost of a nice low pressure system right there.
> Anyone want a high-pressure system now! I have one for cheap! I could also
> use a reccomendation on a real "fail-safe" system, and if it is back to
> yeast/sugar, so be it.

Naw don't need to do this. I got several methods to avoid this.
> Am I Pixxxx?!?!?! You bet. Especially at the people/persons who sell these
> things (sold one to me) and brag at how safe they are. If anyone has any
> links to where I can get a more reliable system, please feel free to contact
> me off-line.

Being the idiot, I designed an idiot proof method to add CO2 with either
yeast or low pressure gas feed systems. It works 100% up to a
point.........not beyond it without burping out excess CO2 and waste gas
build up. You don't need a soliniod but it can be added if you wish, you can
plug in the set up to a pH controller if you have yeast(It works fine but I
personally am not to keen on controllers). The burping allows you to use
yeast(it doesn't stop producing gas) and shut/siphon off the flow and
prevents "Dumps" as well. I've tried it out on many types of water and
people. If you want to get the most out of your yeast, I have the unit for
you. Low pressure as well.
That's one method.

Another is to raise your KH up high. This is a bit more dicey. But at the
higher KH your pH will not swing as much to big dumps.

Third method would to use a needle valve. I've had good luck with the
Monolith Marine Monsters valve at 19$ each, ask for Edward. You can run two
in series for even extra safety if you so desire. Just add one to your
existing regulator. Very simple and adds a good flow control.

Fourth you said you saw 400lbs in there? If it's this low you are getting to
end of the bottle and the gas flow gets funny when it drops off. You should
have changed it or shut it off using the HP set up. If it had not happened
to me before, I would have done the same thing as you though. Actually, I
think I did:) Didn't kill as many fish but did take every one of them out. I
don't always check the level nor do many on this list so it sure helps to
make sure you have a back up in case you don't look much ever leave to go
away on vacation etc.

Control it at the source(needle valve-s), the method(yeast no big dumps
there), the reactor-diffuser(self leveling-burping) interface and the KH.
The rest is up to you. A good quality regulator such as a Victor and a nice
expensive needle valve might make you sleep better. I have had no issues
with a decent needle valve from Monolith.M.M. and Keg works regulators
(about 55$ or so). Cost = about 75$ all you need is a gas tank. Want to add
another CO2 injected plant tank? Cost about 20$ for another valve and run in
parallel chaining them off as you add tanks. A diffuser sells for about 20$
that I designed. It will never clog or dump and is very efficient till you
need to dump the excess. Some folks get tried of using yeast. I am one of
them. It works great on Canned CO2 as well. Need a needle valve though but
not with yeast. 

Remember this about adding CO2: If you set up a CO2 system be sure to set
your error with the too little amount rather than error with the too much
amount. Valves/diffusers are cheap, Discus are not.
Hope this helps.
Tom Barr      Low pressure sales:)