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Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #185

-----Original Message-----
From: Aquatic Plants Digest <Aquatic-Plants-Owner at actwin_com>
To: Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com <Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com>
Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 2:52 AM
Subject: Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #185

>Aquatic Plants Digest      Monday, April 6 1998      Volume 03 : Number 185
>In this issue:
> [none]
> steve's substrate
> My Final Thoughts.
> My setup & water parameters(long)
> Water chestnut (Trapa natans)
>See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
>Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
all...Ive been reading the posts for quite some time and would like to ask a
few questions,if anyone has time ...What is this PMDD stuff some are talking
about? I have been TRYING to grow some plants in a 55 gal tank with mixed
results.I would like to try some fertilizer but dont want to kill or sicken
the fish..Could some one give me some pointers?  TIA  Charles
>Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 15:04:37 -0500
>From: Cynthia S Powers <cyn at metronet_com>
>Subject: [none]
>>Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 22:47:03 -0800
>>From: Rice <RiceGuy at stones_com>
>>To: Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
>>Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #121
>>I wrote sent this a few days back, but didn't see it. If
>>this is a double post, I apologize.
>>Finally, today, after much efforts, I started to cut off
>>*GREEN* leaves! All I can say is sincerest thanks to all of
>>you, especially Steve Pushak, who devoted hours of his time
>>to privately correspond with me and who made sure I did it
>>right. All of you who were ever so kind to help out the
>>newbie... I can't say enough of how great a list this is, or
>>of how much collective knowledge is found on here.
>>I see a few little baby plants popping up from nowhere-
>>isn't it so cool? Already, I'm imagining my future 300
>>gal planted tank... awwwiiiieeeee! Hope I win the lottery
>>I've been wondering if freezing PMDD (the stuff that has
>>already been mixed) would help. would it help preserve it?
>>or would that be counter productive?
>>I recently found out that I have too much Mg in my pmdd;
>>about twice as much as recommended in the formula. Is this
>>        As of now, my tank (50 gal hexagon) is vacant,
>>except for a
>>few ghost shrimps.  thinking of adding a pair of discus. My
>>water, however, is very unfavorable for keeping soft, acidic
>>water fishes. pH is around 8.3 and I'm guessing that the
>>hardness is around 22 KH. Now, if I want to lower the pH, I
>>can do one of the following or a combination: 1) increase
>>CO2 (unlikely to be very effective because I dont want CO2
>>poisoning), I figured that i can get the pH to 7.34 if I
>>increase CO2 to 30 ppm. 2) add peat. Probably won't need to
>>do that because my substrate is already partly made of peat.
>>pH would lower over time. Only, this would mean that I can't
>>change the water that often. Thinking of making an automatic
>>water changer... so you can see my conflict. 3) use RO
>>water. seems to be the best choice, but a real hassle
>>though. changing water with a 5 gallon bottle doesn't sound
>>very fun. 4) not changing water at all. Please advice me
>>here, I have no clue as to what will result form this.
>>        Hooking the RO up as the automatic water changer is
>>not a
>>option. Can't afford it, need the RO for drinking water,
>>parents wont let, yada, yada, yada... Any expensive options
>>are out of the question; my budget is in my wallet, and my
>>wallet is rather thin and sickly looking. :-| I've been
>>doing pretty good on my spending so far, (substrate <-- most
>>expensive!, CO2, aquarium stand, reactor, lights, gravel,
>>plants, heater, power head, fertilizer, etc..), ran a total
>>of about $100 (got tank for free). pretty good huh? Anyway,
>>if you can think of anyway to get a low pH at a low cost,
>>please let me know.
>>And once again, thanks to all of you- amazing I got this
>Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 23:03:18 -0700
>From: "Toan T." <RiceGuy at stones_com>
>Subject: steve's substrate
>There was someone a short while back that was about to
>try steve's substrate method. Just wanted to tell that
>person that his method worked for me! Plants look great!
>And the thing I like best about it is that it is cheap.
>Oh yeah, Steve, how long does your substrate last? 2, 3
>years? think I can stretch that if I start adding pmdd
>when the plants start to show signs of deficiency?
>Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 11:20:42 +0800
>From: Michael Cordero <taburnok at skyinet_net>
>hi me again .. i need to know if there are sources for PMDD INGREDIENTS
>who can do mail order and ship here to MANILA .. if someone
>out there has any info on this please help out .. im really interested
>in rolling my own ... TIA
>Date: Sun, 5 Apr 1998 19:48:06 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Thomas Moeller <n9345228 at cc_wwu.edu>
>Subject: My Final Thoughts.
>First, my apologies for continuing this thread. I realize the topic has
>been closed by our adminstrator, but I would like to put a peaceful end to
>all of this, so we can better continue with what we all love to do and
>that's keeping aquatic plants.  First, although easily mistaken, my
>orignal post was meant to be a sharing of a great deal, of which I thought
>a lot of people could relate to.  You see, I am a senior at Western
>Washington University and not suprisingly have no money and usually pay
>more money into my fish hobby every month than buying food for myself.  As
>you know, keeping fish and aquatic plants in a serious way is not for
>those without money....nevertheless, my *deal* at Petsmart in finding 35
>Anubia congensis for $1.49 each was just that, a great deal! Especially
>for a poor college kid who now could play with 35 awesome plants.  Just
>to clarify, I did not steal.  You can twist it anyway you like.  There
>were no other price tags that said Anubia...nor have I ever seen them in
>that store before!  Yes, I guessed that they had goofed in a big way, but
>I don't feel I have an overwhelming duty to society to point out
>everyone's mistakes, especially in the retail world.  Finally, I find it
>quite disgusting if not surprising that you would all berate me (in some
>cases multiple times by the same people) and send me such things as quotes
>from the bible, calling me a communist, a thief, a criminal, etc
>etc....come on people.  Surely we can all get excited about this and yes,
>it's easy to mistaken things on email...they come across in different ways
>to different people...but let's calm down.  Once again, my goal was to
>voice my excitement about these great plants and the fact I got a great
>deal.  I am sure that *IF* this was a mistake by Petsmart, it won't hurt
>anybody's retirement fund, send me to hell, or alienate me from society.
>Now, we are all fairly intelligent people with a great common interest.
>Let's put this behind us and talk about aquatic plants. My apologies for
>taking up bandwith with this and previous off-topic post/responses. -Tom
>Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:39:34 -0400
>From: "Thomas E. Cooper" <avian at ee_net>
>Subject: My setup & water parameters(long)
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>- --------------43E0E857315
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Here we go again.
> I respectfully ask for someone to please read this and answer my
>Quetions please.  I have sent a few posts to the list so far and most
>went unanswered.  I will be sending for a report from the water co., and
>will be comparing my test results with theres'.
>- --
>Aint nature grand
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><!--X-Subject: My setup & water parameters(long) -->
><!--X-From: "Thomas E. Cooper" <avian at ee_net> -->
><!--X-Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:41:07 &#45;0500 -->
><!--X-Message-Id: 352065D3.17EE@ee.net -->
><!--X-ContentType: text/plain -->
><TITLE>My setup &amp; water parameters(long)</TITLE>
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><H1>My setup &amp; water parameters(long)</H1>
><LI><strong>To</strong>: <strong><A
HREF="mailto:aquatic-plants at actwin_com">aquatic-plants at actwin_com</A></stron
><LI><strong>Subject</strong>: <strong>My setup &amp; water
><LI><strong>From</strong>: <strong>"Thomas E. Cooper" &lt;<A
HREF="mailto:avian at ee_net">avian at ee_net</A>&gt;</strong></LI>
><LI>Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:41:07 -0500</LI>
>Hi all
> I have been lurking awhile.  I have got my setup together execpt for
>the plants.  My water parameters are abit confusing to me.  Any help
>would be appreciated.
> I own a ninety gallon tank, my filteration is a magnum 350(350gph)
>canister filter, I have Ehiem ceramic tiles in the charcol slieve.  I
>also have a Emporer powerfilter (400GPH) by Penguin on the back of the
>tank.  It has the pads that came with it , they have some charcol in
>them.  In the cartriges I have Fluval peat granuals.  Right now I also
>have an undergravel filter powered by 2 Penguin 550 powerheads (145GPH
>each) reverse flow.  The The gravel for this filter is 1-3mm, and about
>5" thick  I plan on adding Duplarit k Pellets to the subsrtrate.  The
>lighting will be provided 2 40W Flora-Glow by Hagen, and 2 40W Aqual-Glo
>also by Hagen.  There will be one of each in both striplights, plus two
>20W 24" cool white bulbs in the original striplight.  The two new
>striplights have alunimium reflectors.  I have four halfgrown Leatacara
>curviceps, five young Bleedinghearts, one Corydoras jullii, 3 C.swartzi,
>and one Otocinclus sp.(I started with 3).
>I plan on adding three more Bleedinghearts, and eight Cardinal tetras.
>I do have some algea, but not much.  Mainly just the bright green stuff
>that sticks to the glass.  I plan on getting a small Pleco till the
>plants come then replacing him with acouple SAEs.  I do 30% waterchanges
>every week. I condition the new water with Tetra's Aquasafe. The temp is
>around eightyfive.(  The heater only runs in the dead of winter, I have
>been unsuccessful in lowering the temp.).
> I did tests on both my tap water and the aquarium water with Red Sea
>Pharm Ltd's Deluxe Fresh lab..  I did a waterchange about a week before
>the test.
>            Tap          Tank
>Ph          7.2          6.2
>KH          1 Deg.       O Deg.
>GH          7 Deg.       7 Deg.
>Fe          0.1 ppm      O.1 ppm
>Nitrite     0 ppm        0.05 ppm
>Toxic NH    O            0.00075ppm
>Co2         10 Triation  The color wouldn't change.?????
>The tank has been up and running for five years without the Penguin
>power filter and therefor no Peat.  It used to have a large Population
>of Central american cichlids.  They did very well.
> My Question is are.  Before adding plants should I turn off the
>undergravel filter and use the powerheads for watermovement. Is the
>substrate two thick, If not how do I keep the substrate from turning
>anoxic if the ugf filter isn't running.  Obviously the PH and the KH are
>too low Does this have to do with the fact that I couldn't get a reading
>on the Co2 in the tank water.  I thought that central Ohio's water was
>high Ph and KH because all the limestone, which is calciumcarbonate.
>The GH seems to be just alittle high.  Should I remove the peat from the
>powerfilter.  I plan on makeing some PMDD from recipes in the archives.
>Any thoughts on geting my water parameters in line for plants.  I know
>this was very long.  Thanks for youre patience.
>- --
>Aint nature grand
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>- --------------43E0E857315--
>Date: Mon, 06 Apr 1998 00:28:29 -0500
>From: Cynthia S Powers <cyn at metronet_com>
>Subject: Water chestnut (Trapa natans)
>>Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 21:29:20 -0400
>>From: "Sibastien Amodeo" <m231674 at er_uqam.ca>
>>To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com, m231674 at er_uqam.ca
>>Subject: Water chestnut (Trapa natans)
>>Hello all!
>>I'm a master's student (environmental sciences) at the University of
>>Quibec in Montrial, and our team is researching the possibility of using
>>the water chestnut (Trapa natans) as a possible way of removing surplus
>>phosphorus in an eutrophic lake. We have chosen this plant because it is
>>also a non-native aquatic plant causing problems with lake users.
>>We need the most information possible on this plant, especially
>>concerning its reproduction, life cycle, and anything related to
>>nutrient (particularly phosphorus) uptakes.
>>Our idea was to restrain the plants in a certain area, using a dyke or
>>specially designed fences, and to collect the plants once they have
>>grown. The collected plants could then serve as compost or other uses.
>>If anyone has any ideas, suggestions, remarks, or experience that could
>>be helpful, please contact me directly (I'm not on the mailing list).
>>Thank you very much!
>>Sibastien Amodeo
>>m231674 at er_uqam.ca
>End of Aquatic Plants Digest V3 #185
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