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Aquatic Plants Digest    Friday, September 19 1997    Volume 02 : Number 964

In this issue:

	Re:botia lohachata
	Re: Fountain Plant
	Re: Hard Water 
	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #963
	Hard Water
	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #963
	Re: Top ups & DW
	Re: Aquarium repair
	Re: Science Project
	Re: Clipping Sagittaria
	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #963

See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 17:54:35 +0800
From: "Jonathan Uy" <5js at durian_usc.edu.ph>
Subject: Re:botia lohachata

Thanks to all who responded to my questions on Pond Snails and Copper
Tubing.  It seems that the clown loach is the popular choice for snail
control.  Unfortunately, I may have to wait one to two months for a pair.

Shawn, could you please give a physical description of yoyo's and it's
habits?  The pet shops here are not very good with scientific or common
names.  Thanks for the tip.

5js at usc_edu.ph
Cebu, Philippines


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:18:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: Gerry Skau <gerry at ans_net>
Subject: Re: Fountain Plant

I have a similiar plant in one of my 29 gallon tanks that I got from
Westerleigh Aquariums in Staten Island via mail order. They called it a
Fountain Saggitaria, I don't know what sub species it is. It is differant
from normal *tape grass* type vals,or sags, it looks a little like an
Amazon sword with sag leaves instead of Echinodorous leaves. Anyone else
have any ideas? I could contact Westerleigh and find out exactly what it
is. I was hoping by watching it grow I might be able to identify it but is
sure is differant.

      -Gerry Skau
       ANS BigDial Engineering



Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 08:46:21 cst
From: mark.fisher at tpwd_state.tx.us
Subject: Re: Hard Water 

     >Rats- I was hoping to start a fascinating thread a la *what color is clear
     >water in a white pail* but George is a man of few words...  ;-)
     Ah, but what is the color of clear water in a RED pail? 
     >I use distilled water when replacing evaporated water to avoid mineral
     >build up in my tanks. Does anyone else do this or feel that this is
     A very clever discussion/explanation on this topic can be found at:
     and I will attempt to answer, based on Ron Wozniak's discussion above. 
     My apologies to Ron if I blow it.
     By topping off your tank with tap water, you are adding water + 
     dissolved minerals to replace the pure water that has evaporated; over 
     time, your tank have a higher mineral content than your tap water due 
     to evaporation, even if you do regular water changes.  Eventually, the 
     amount of minerals gained by topping off will equal the amount removed 
     by water changes, but what will this long-term concentration be?
     Okay, lets assume a 100 gallon tank filled with tap water containing 
     300 mg/l dissolved solids.  2 gallons are lost every week to 
     evaporation, which is replaced with tap water.  This amounts to (2 
     gallons x 3.78 liters/gallon x 300 mg/liter) = 2,268 mg of minerals 
     added every week.  So according to Ron's handy table, with a 20% 
     weekly water change, in the long run this would result in an 
     additional 9,072 mg, or  24 mg/liter, over and above what the aquarium 
     started out with.  This would result in a final concentration of 324 
     mg/liter in the aquarium.
     According to Ron's table, it would take 8 weeks to reach 80% of this 
     concentration, 11 weeks to reach 90%, and 14 weeks to reach 95%.
     With only a 10% weekly water change, the final concentration would be 
     354 mg/liter, while a 25% weekly water change would result in 318 
     mg/liter.  Break even (no increase in dissolved minerals) would 
     require 50% weekly water changes.   These figures assume no net uptake 
     of any of the minerals by the plants or fish.
     Of course, the higher the evaporation rate, the higher the increase in 
     minerals, and vice-versa.
     In conclusion, as long as you do regular water changes, it seems it is 
     probably not necessary to top off with distilled/deionized water, unless 
     you are trying to maintain some VERY STRICT water quality parameters.  
     Regular water changes can solve/prevent a LOT of aquarium problems.
     Golly, I hope I got the calculations right!
     Kind regards,


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 07:12:00 -0700
From: gomberg at wcf_com
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #963

On 09/19/97 at 03:19 p, Aquatic-Plants-Owner at actwin_com (Aquatic
Plants Digest) said:

>Neither Perfecto nor All-Glass makes inferior aquariums.  At least not by design.  Nor
does Oceanic.  I have large aquariums built by the above manufacturers and they have
performed exactly as they were advertised.

>When properly installed and leveled, there have been no leaks, cracks, or
abnormalities. I would suggest that those inferring substandard manufacturing
practices be the last to throw stones.  >Karl R. Schoeler

Karl, I believe the question was whether or not these tanks are the
"same".  It is my understanding that those who have them think that
Oceanics have thicker glass.  Can you confirm or deny this, looking
at the same size tank?

I can tell you that at wholesale, Perfecto and All-Glass are quite a
bit cheaper.

- -- 

Dave Gomberg, FormMaestro!                     http://www.wcf.com
 gomberg at wcf_com
  Help stop Internet spam! Join CAUCE:   http://www.cauce.org/


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 09:57:17 -0500
From: berzerker7 at juno_com (Robert Spotswood)
Subject: Hard Water

<snip> The question is where do you get the distilled water from?  This
is a "make or buy" decison.  By distilled, do you mean steam distilled? 
This doesn't seem practical to me.  Most of us use either reverse osmosis
or a deionizing column (like the Tap Water Purifier) to create soft water
and mix it with our existing tap water until we arrive at our desired GH
and alkalinity.  Both R.O. and D.I. units are expensive, but buying
bottled distilled water at the grocery store would be worse.
<end snip>

My experience is different.  I have a friend who has a RO system for her
aquarium.  I asked her about the cost and how it works as I was
considering buying one for myself.  However, when I got through figuring
out the cost per gallon, it worked out to a little over $0.35.  There are
numerous places here is Houston (read vending machines) where you can by
RO water for $0.25 per gallon, and one I visit regularly for $0.20. 
Fifteen cents per gallon may seem small, but start adding up all the
gallons you  use, and you will find a significant cost difference,
especially when I drive by the place (to get the cheap water) on my way

Of course, this is Houston, where you don't really drink sink water, you
just sort of chew it.  (We have very hard water!)  Also, I don't know how
common water vending machines are in other cities, so your milage may
vary. ;)


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:01:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Thomas R Petersen <peter334 at tc_umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #963

I'm not so sure I would quickly discount the substrate heating for your
140g setup.  I am by no means an expert, but the past month I've been
pouring over all kinds of internet and published sources that favor that
approach.  Admittedly, the cost is up there, but I just proved (using
these same sources) that a $60 DIY substrate heating operation is
possible--down to the exact timer purchased at Walmart!  BTW, I used the
low wattage Resler-Behle plan that can be found (along with others) at:

(It turned out to be a very interesting project--if you have the time!)
Tom Petersen
peter334 at gold_tc.umn.edu


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 97 9:27:13 MDT
From: "Marshall F. Wilkinson" <wilkinso at acs_ucalgary.ca>
Subject: Re: Top ups & DW


I use DW for top ups as do many on this list. It's definintely
necessary to keep water quality stable.

Marshall Wilkinson
Calgary Alberta


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:56:59 -0500
From: krombhol at teclink_net (Paul Krombholz)
Subject: Re: Aquarium repair

David Jones wrote:

>        any one have suggestions on aquarium repair, one of my 40 gallon tanks
>decided to spring a serious leak. one corner of the mostly glass tank gave
>way and I am unsure whether to disassemble it or just squeeze more silicone
>into the corner.

I bought a used 55 gallon that was a leaker, and I didn't go as far as
disassembling, but I scraped away all the silicone on the inside with a
single edge razor blade, then cleaned the glass with steel wool and
scouring powder, then rinsed very thoroughly, then dried for about a week
and then reapplied silicone liberally on all the inside joins right up to
the top of the tank. (By "joins", I mean where one glass plate meets
another. ) It has held up for over 20 years.  The important thing is to get
the glass surfaces really clean where you are going to apply silicone.

Paul Krombholz in dry, not too hot for us (around 90 for the high) Jackson,


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:56:36 -0400
From: rjw at aluxs_micro.lucent.com (Ronald Wozniak)
Subject: Re: Science Project

>To whom it may concern,
>	I am an eighth-grade science student in Brooklyn, NY and am 
>currently researching for a yearlong science project.  The topic I have 
>chosen is "The Effect of the Amount of Salt on the Growth of Aquatic 
>Plants".   So far I have considered using the Indian Water Friend 
>(Hygrophilia polysperma) or the Elodea densa, since they are sturdy, 
>available and easy to grow.  Is this a wise choice?  Also, I have found very 
>ittle about how salt would actually affect one of these plants.  Do you have 
>any info/references that would help me there?
> I would greatly appreciate it.
>							Sincerely,
>							Jacob Stulberg
>							jastulberg at packer_edu


I think you have an outstanding idea for a science project!
You are right about there not being a lot on information available
on the effect of salt on the growth of aquatic plants. Or at least,
I haven't found very much.  Terrestrial and Bog plants seem to have
gotten most of the attention.

Hygrophilia polysperma or the Elodea densa would be good choices.
If I had to pick from the two I would use Hygrophilia polysperma,
since I consider this plant excellent in watching for trends in 
growth. This plant is like good watch dog or canary in a cave in
spotting troubles. There's a couple of article in the magazine 
"The Aquatic Gardener" which discuss using this plant to monitor 
nutrients in the aquarium.  The plant shows distinctive signs when 
the light, iron, potasium, etc .. levels are out of balance.  I've 
never seen the plant used for monitoring salt levels.  If interested,
I'll look up for you the author and dates when these two articles 
where published.

Of the Hygrophilia polysperma species, I like the "Sunset" Hygrophilia 
polysperma.  This plant has some pink and red color in it.  My daughter
has this plant in her standard "stock" equipped (i.e. no special lights,
CO2, etc...) 20 gallon aquarium.  The plants grow OK in her dimmly lite
aquarium. In my "High Tech" 90 gallon aquarium, the plant is excellent 
in monitoring iron levels.

Another plant you may want to consider is the "Amazon Sword" plant.
The plant is fairly easy to find and should not be too expensive.
The mail order store "That Fish Place" use to sell a Medium Amazon Sword
plant that, for some reason, only grows 6 to 10 inches tall, rather than
the more usual 12 to 18 inches. 

In general, I found Amazon Sword plants to be fairly sensitive to high 
salt levels (i.e. 1 teaspoon of NaCl/gallon of water).  The leaves on these
plants are relatively large and thin making them easy to observe.  I 
believe that when the salt levels in the water get too high, the salt causes 
round brown burn marks in the leaves. Too much salt and the plant turns to 
mush. I'd be extremely interested in knowing what concentration of salt in 
water start causing problems.

One motavation I have in studying this area is that when I started growing
aquatic plants, my aquarium water was softened with a standard water softener.
Regular salt (NaCl) is used in this process.  Anyways, I had a ruff time in the
beginning, most of plants did poorly until I quit using softened water. If it
wasn't from the advice from people on the APD list, I would have given up 
the hobby like a lot of other "beginners".

I thinks results from your study could make an excellent addition for 
publication in the journal "The Aquatic Gardener".

Good Luck,

Ron Wozniak
TAG member
rjwozniak at lucent_com
Allentown, PA


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 10:42:10 -0700
From: rhondawi at sprynet_com
Subject: Re: Clipping Sagittaria


>Hello, all.  I have some Sagittaria that I picked up at a local
>auction which is doing great.  I've never bothered to ID it, as I
>reckon it's probably some x var y that I'd never be able to puzzle out
>anyway.  Its leaves are about 1/2" (1.3 cm) wide, possibly a bit
>wider, and its reddish.  The problem is that the plants are over 36"
>tall!  What I'm wondering is whether it's OK to clip these at the
>water line, as they're creating considerable shade in my tank, which
>is about 16" high.

I have a much smaller growing sag, but I have some jungle val that easily 
gets that tall in my 55 living room tank. If I don't trim it the leaves get 
to be such a mass on the top the fish even have trouble getting up to the 
top to eat. I trim mine to about 2 inches or so above the water surface so 
it still has a nice affect. I trim it about every couple months. I did them 
the other day and pulled a full 4 gallon bucket worth of trimings out. I 
just feed all the trimmings to my golden apple and Columbian ramshorn 

Obviously sag is a different plant but they are pretty similar and I have 
found no ill effects from the trimmings on the val.


American Livebearer Association
Pets Forum Group Inc.


Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:42:42 +0200
From: "Thomas D. Kryger" <tdkryger at post6_tele.dk>
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #963


I've got a problem.

1 month ago I started to use fertilizer in my tank (My plants wasen't
growing). 3 weeks ago I got the first blue-green algae, and someone told my
that is was because of poor water quality, so i started to change the
water, and in those 3 weeks i've changed the water 9 times in all, and
there are no change (except my plants are bigger, as are my algea).
Anyone got a solution?

Thomas D. Kryger
TDKryger at post6_tele.dk
EAPsoftware at technologist_com


End of Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #964

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