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Too bad. I am on Vacation.

I am away on vacation until Sepember 22. I'll read your message when I get 
In the mean time, for Image or VIR Cartridge development please contact the  
other project leader, Dan Mullen (dmullen). For business, training, or beta 
issues, please contact the program manager,Joe Mauro (jmauro). For other 
please contact my manager Sam Defazio (sdefazio). 
Cathleen Trezza 				     Server Technologies/NEDC 
Image Data Cartridges 					Oracle Corporation 
ctrezza at us_oracle.com  					  (603) 

-- BEGIN included message

Aquatic Plants Digest    Friday, September 12 1997    Volume 02 : Number 950

In this issue:

	Methyl mercator?
	New Setup Question
	Aquasun & VHO
	Living Water Vital
	Big Ramshorn Snails
	Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #949
	Substrate richness/riskiness order
	Metal Halide in UK
	Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #948 -Reply

See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 08:37:36 
From: "Richard Denney" <rdenney at ibm_net>
Subject: Methyl mercator?

It has been a long time since I took geography or organic chemistry, but I am pretty sure that
"mercator" is the flat map 
projection (the one that makes Greenland and Alaska incorrectly large), and methyl-SH is
methyl  _mercaptan_ (also known 
as methyl thiol). A thiol by any other name still smells...

Richard Denney
rdenney at ibm_net


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 10:11:04 -0500
From: "Boris Kaushansky"<boris_kaushansky at datascope_com>
Subject: New Setup Question

     I am setting up a new 25gal tank.  I will be running 110W of compact 
     fluorescents raised 5 inches above the tank through a glass cover, CO2 
     injection, and a ehiem 2215 for filtration.  
     1.  Is laterite the substrate fertilizer of choise??
     2.  What should I layer the ehiem with??  (peat, filter floss, 
     prefilter blocks, etc)??  And in what order??
     3.  If I decide to keep a couple of Discus, is their anything I should 
     avoid given the higher temps they perfer??
     4.  Any other comments would greatly be appreciated!!
     Thanks for any info.


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:32:17 -0500
From: art_mgg at centum_utulsa.edu (Glenn Godsey)
Subject: Aquasun & VHO

Hello folks,

I just discovered and joined this group, but I have dabbled in plant tanks
for about 12 years. I have been completely isolated in this pursuit, so it
is very nice to find a community of "Dutch" aquarium devotees. I read The
Optimum Aquarium in 1986 and have applied a poor man's version of Dupla
principles ever since, with good results, mostly with simple bunch plants.
I do very little water testing, and have mostly "played it by ear".

I have a couple of lighting questions.

I have skimmed much of the archives, and I have found no mention of my
favorite Tri-phosphor bulb,the URI Aquasun. I have used these with good
results for several years and I like the color (5200 k). They cost me about
$30 each for 36" bulbs and I have to order them, but they seem worth it. I
havn't seen them in any comparison studies, such as George Booth's. Does
anyone else use them?

Second question: I saw nothing in the archives about VHO. The comparisons
all seem to be between standard fluorescents and MH. There is a favorable
article in the Sept, 97 FAMA about the improvements in recent years in VHO
sytems. I have thought,for several years, about changing to VHO Aquasuns
for my 45 g deep tank (24" deep). Does anyone have experience with VHO?

I appreciate any advice, opinions, etc. Many thanks,

Glenn Godsey


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:40:19 -0500
From: art_mgg at centum_utulsa.edu (Glenn Godsey)
Subject: Living Water Vital

Hello again,

Ther were a few comments about Mark Weiss' Living Water Vital and Instant
Amazon in the archives back in Jan/Feb. Most comments were speculative
(Miracle or Snake Oil?), but a few people had begun trying them with good
short term results. I havn't found any comments since. Has anyone been
using these products for a few months? What are the results?

Many thanks,
Glenn Godsey


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:06:44 +0800
From: olga at arts_ubc.ca (Olga Betts)
Subject: Big Ramshorn Snails

Frank wrote:

>I've got a bit of an algae problem in one of my tanks, so yesterday I
>picked up three large (1.5 inch)  ramshorn snails to see if they would help
>a bit.  Despite an abundance of algae, they chewed into my plants with a
>speed I found quite astounding.  One 4" by 1/2" leaf became a 4" by 1/4"
>leaf in about 20 seconds as I watched a single snail travel down it.

I'm looking at a ruler and those are awfully large Ramshorn snails. I've
never seen any that big but then that may be just because I haven't seen
any that big. :)  Are you sure they were Ramshorn snails? Maybe some snail
experts out there can tell us how big they get. Mine are about a 1/2 inch
and I thought those were big.

Even if they are Ramshorn snails I think your mistake was getting such big
ones. I have read that they eat plants only when they get large and if one
has too many. If this is so you can raise them and let them eat algae and
then remove them when they get too big. I put a new Java Fern in my tank
with some of the older leaves algaed (let's make algae a verb!) and my
snails headed right over there and are cleaning the leaves, not eating

Sorry you had a bad experience, Frank but if you could have seen my tank
before and then after the snails you would be impressed.

Snail experts -- what's the word on Ramshorns?

in Vancouver


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 97 08:12:48 -0700
From: gomberg at wcf_com
Subject: Re: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #949

On 09/12/97 at 03:48 p, Frank said:

> yesterday I picked up three large (1.5 inch) 
>ramshorn snails to see if they would help a bit. 

If they were 1.5" they weren't ramshorns, rams rarely exceed .5"

- -- 

Dave Gomberg, FormMaestro!                     http://www.wcf.com
 gomberg at wcf_com
  Help stop Internet spam! Join CAUCE:   http://www.cauce.org/


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 08:20:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Erik Olson <eriko at wrq_com>
Subject: "FO"

> From: "G.Tong" <gtong at sirius_com>
> Subject: T8s and FO mystery solved
> Grainger helped me out with the F0 designation that Erik wrote about for
> "new" T8 lamps. The designation may be brand-based and used only by
> Sylvania. Notice I've used qualifiers ("may") because I haven't looked up
> all possible lamp designations.

Yep, thanks.  Found that one out immediately after I sent the post when I
looked at some Phillips tubes at work (silent "D'oh!").  But I did say in
the original post that's why I used three criteria (size, wattage,
designation), not just one of them. :) What kinda sucks about the
designation is that if you buy a sylvania ballast, it says "use with FO32
tubes only," which is great if your supplier has only given you Sylvania
tubes. Grr. 

I'll add the SPX and TL7xx info to my personal cache now,
as well as the tidbit that 25 watt, 36" versions ARE available.  No 18",
though, eh?

- ---
Erik D. Olson					         amazingly, at home
eriko at wrq_com


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 12:10:06 -0500
From: cmunoz at crystal_cirrus.com (Carlos Munoz)
Subject: Substrate richness/riskiness order

I just gave someone advice on choosing a substrate.  I'd like to get people's
opinions on it, since I've not used many different types.

I made out this list of common substrate combinations that I've heard of and
tried to order them in what I would call richness/riskiness order (riskiness
in the sense that there is a higher potential of algae outbreak due to the
higher immediate nutrient content).  

Thinking about it for a bit, I'm not so sure anymore about some of the later 
ones, and I'd like some comments on [1]: a better ordering, [2] other substrate 
options that don't fall into the ones already listed, and [3] a simplification
of the 10 substrates listed into a smaller set.

1)  simple mid-grain-size sand/gravel (3" of substrate depth or so)
2)  pot each of your difficult plants (specialized substrate for each)
3)  add laterite balls (purchased or made from "substrate gold" or red
	modeling clay)
4)  mix laterite into bottom 1/3 of substrate (same sources as above)
5)  either mix a small amount of peat into laterite layer (above) or sprinkle
	a thin layer over the laterite layer before covering with rest of sand
6)  mix a loamy soil (backyard, garden center) instead of peat as in (5)
7)  mix earthworm castings instead of/in addition to peat as is (5)
8)  replace sand/gravel from above mixes with river mud
9)  replace sand/gravel from above mixes with loamy soil/mud
10) replace sand/gravel from above mixes with rich soil/mud

Again, I'm ordering them in terms of risk of algae outbreak due to increased
nutrient content.  I know ALL of the can be algae-free if you do them right,
which is why I'm doing it by expected net nutrient content.  (2) is tough, but
since the pots might be a small volume compared to the entire substrate, I 
felt that it was low risk/net nutrient content.

Opinions?  In particular, where does (8) really lie in comparison? 

- -Carlos


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 19:56:42 +0100
From: A M Moore <andy at ascot_u-net.com>
Subject: Metal Halide in UK

Following mt previous posts regarding Metal Halide & Mercury Vapour, I have
managed to find a supplier of 150 Watt Metal Halide units with colour
temperatures of 4500K & 6500K.

The aquatic shop assured me that these `Arcadia` units are designed for
freshwater plant growth & marine use respectively.

Is this correct ? What is the best spectrum for freshwater plant growth -
would have thought it was around 5500K. Which of these units would be the
most suitable ? Both are priced at #134.99.

Andy M Moore - Blackpool, England
andy at ascot_u-net.com

I decided to stop drinking with creeps
I decided only to drink with friends
I`ve lost 30 pounds !

Ernest Hemingway


Date: Fri, 12 Sep 1997 15:04:49 -0400
From: Lyndle Schenck <LSCHENCK at dcscorp_com>
Subject: Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #948 -Reply

Hi All,

I can find a source for most of the required components for a pressure
CO2 system except the electrical solenoid.  They don't seem to be
complicated devices but they are dreadfully expensive in the usual
aquarium supply catalogs.   I have a Sandpoint solenoid that works great.
 I use a timer to turn the CO2 on when the lights go on and turn an air
stone on when the lights are out.

Does anyone know where these or similar solenoids can be bought at a
reasonable price??

Lyndle Schenck   lschenck at dcscorp_com


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