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Re: GW, snake oils, and Barley

> I was in fact a bit wary of the Azoo product but I have heard they have a
> good reputation (maybe nto in the US because you guys dont really have the
> products there yet) but yes it did clear my water crystal clear as it
> claimed.. took about 5 hours and hasnt harmed any fish or plants..  Now lets
> see if it can stay like that... for $12 I am pretty happy as compared to
> $300 for a UV

At that price I would be as well. Azoo has a good reputation IMO.
> 
>>> Is well polished crystal clear sterile water a waste? Is buying snake oils
> a
>>> waste?
> 
> Buying a UV is a waste as here the cheapest ones are around $300 Aus ..
> might not be much to the people from the US but because the Aus dollar is so
> low it makes everything expensive for us (especially when you are a
> student).  I am not goign to dish out $300 for a UV sterilizer that I will
> use once.. im nto saying the greenwater wont come back but in all my other
> tanks where it magically dissappeared it has never reappeared until now just
> in this tank.

"Borrowing" a UV works also. But requires that you know someone with one.

> 
>>> But the real problem is why the GW started up in the first place.....
>>> It's not bad for your plants and all but it likes to hang out even after
> you
>>> correct things and do water changes. Black out can work especially after a
>>> big water change. As soon as you do a big water change, Drop the blanket
> on
>>> there's for 3 days or 4. Add two blankets to be sure no light is making it
>>> in if you have too. Cost= nothing. Snake oil = $.
> 
> Been there done that.. 90% water change 2 week tank black out with heavy
> black blankets.. took them off and the water was still hazy... did another
> 90% water change.. 3 days later back to where I started.  Cost nothing but
> didnt work for me.

I've done this a number of times and it's worked for me everytime. I do not
like what it does to Gloss etc after since many plants are all leggy after
treatment. But if it's not working you need to look at other errors in your
method. It does certainly work.
> 
>>> Yes, it's called good nutrient management and filtration. Do that and you
>>> don't get GW.
>>> Add CO2 well.
>>> Make sure the filter does not get clogged.
>>> Do not toss in a bunch of NPK and/or disturb the substrate too much in a
>>> rich high light tanks....etc without water changes to lower these spikes.
>>> Uncycled tanks that are not yet mature will get it.
>>> It doesn't "magically appear". There's a reason. Once established it can
>>> live on almost no nutrients at all compared to the inputs and leftovers
> from
>>> the plants, fish and gravel.
> 
> CO2 is added well.. 2 x 2L DIY bottles into my filter intake..

*And there you have it. A nice tank going along fine then has a low period
of CO2. Add high light and nutrients and there's the GW.
Correct the CO2 and the GW will still persist.

> platns goign
> crazy bubbling.. actually haev to measure the co2 level.

Screwy CO2 levels will do it. Bubbling plants means there's some CO2 but
doesn't indicate a good range throughout the photoperiod by any means or any
other levels or for several days of poor CO2 conditions. GW can exist nicely
after you have good conditions once again. DIY CO2 often goes through cycles
of high and low production rates. Temperature is a factor in this also. If
you had a couple of colder days the CO2 production would be low for those
days etc. Toward the end of the life of the brew production/mix is much
lower than at the first day etc. This will give some wiggle room for the GW
to get in there even if you are up on things generally speaking. Plant will
still grow very well if GW is present.
 Stable CO2 will not allow for this wiggle room on the other hand. Bubbling
plants is not the best indicator for GW. It does quite well once established
at optimal plant conditions. It just needs small 1-3 day window depending on
the lighting intensity. Once there it's tough to get rid of it.

>  Filter is cleaned
> periodically and does not get to the clogged stage (eheim professional).

You have a nice filter but DIY CO2? Spend little on the filter and a lot on
the CO2 is my advice. Good that part is well taken care though. Nice filters
are good for sure. I've put in two so far. Happy with them.
Adding lots of floss(buy this at a fabric store for cheap) will help remove
it as will adding some water clarifier. Pack it in there well. Sometimes
that alone will work.

> Don't add nitrate, or phosphate.. add some pottasium via k2so4.  My tank
> could be considered high light (180W/50gal) and I havent realyl disturbed
> the substrate since I started.  The tank has been setup for 6 months so I
> assume it is cycled and it is pretty full of fast growing plants.

You may want to figure out what those are. NO3 can be pretty important. It's
right after CO2 on the importance list.

> 
>>> Learn how to deal with light, CO2 and nutrients. If your cheap, blackout.
> If
>>> your well heeled, UV and or micron filtration(40$ or so and up). Both
> work.
>>> If your a bio-back to nature person, Daphnia. etc. There are more ways to
>>> cure GW than any other algae in tanks.
> 
> Well black out didnt work for me, UV and microns are way to expensive here,
> can't find daphnia anywhere (will ahve to go on a collecting expedition).

Fish may eat it all. Need lots to work well. Fun though. Most any small pond
will have them.
> 
> The Azoo product DID work, DID do what it said, DIDNT harm my fish or plants
> and was only $12.. I know I might not have cured the cause but hopefully my
> plants will get the leg up on the algae before it can strike back.. if not
> it will definately be the daphnia..

Worked in your case. Many of these snake oils work in certain situations,
not all. UV and micron does work in all, 100% of the time.

Barley Straw did not work when I tested it. It does work in other folk's
cases. But if you keep good overall conditions? All of these tonic's snake
oils etc are not needed.

The Barley stuff didn't do squat for any algae issues I tested it against
one bit. Why? I'm not certain but the research indicates that it lowers
NO3's............this is common nutrient in most folk's tanks that's often
in excess. No so in my tanks and others who test and keep a close eye
management of these levels. So the chances of it working if that is the
problem is dependent on that. There are many more dependent factors also
that are unique to each tank as well. Interestingly, low NO3 tanks did not
respond and that NO3 is removed by straw extract. It seems there might be
correlation there. Maybe not. That was a couple of tanks though. But the
tanks were well tested with Lamott kits and other parameters. Seems to be
the case to me so far. Have not seen other wise on well run tanks.

Many folks talk about testing and do little actual testing except once week
or once a month etc. Keeping a close accurate measurement on one specific
level can teach you incredible things.
 
The real universal algae control is Light, CO2 and nutrients in a good
ranges. Take care of these and you take care of all algae. When these 3
things go south you get algae.

GW just needs a window of opportunity to get started and after conditions
are corrected it will persist unless radical measures are taken to remove
it. So it just takes a little while, perhaps 1-3 days of so-so conditions to
bloom up. Folks with Yeast can't help it over the course of year or so
say...we forget or neglect etc. I used yeast for well over 10 years. I know
the in's and out's and most every Murphy's dealing with it.
> 
>>> Stay away from "snake oils and cure all's".
>>> That IS a waste of YOUR money!
> 
> Just want to say again the Azoo product worked excellently and I am very
> happy and it is not a snake oil.

I've tried some of their products. Okay I guess so far. I do not use "algae
cures" snake oils. Don't need too......:)
I know what the universal algae cure is.

Azoo Plant hormones did not do well in aquariums. Much more positive results
in emmersed tanks. 
Some of their other products are questionably effective and look to appeal
to marketing rather than actual science based products. Not a bad line by
any means though. Better than many certainly.

I may give it a try since I can induce GW easily in my tanks. It's easy to
get rid and doesn't hurt plants so it's a good test algae for me. I've
induced to test a number different products so far. All the products have
failed. Perhaps this one might not. I'm hopeful.

If it did cure it, get things back on line and don't let the conditions
favor GW again, unless you like buying 12$ bottles:) Once the GW is gone
stay on top of it and it may never come back again for you hopefully.
Watch your KH/GH/PO4 if you see it again. See if the GH/KH went down and the
PO4 went up. Get canned CO2 if you wish to use CO2.
Regards,
Tom Barr