NFC: Fw: RE: [Nativefishponds] i need some pond plants

[robert a rice <robertrice at juno_com>]

an interesting thread from the ponds list


Robert Rice - NFC president   www.nativefish.org

--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Brad Kerr" <Brad at aquahabitat_com>
To: <Nativefishponds at yahoogroups_com>
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 16:53:36 -0700
Subject: RE: [Nativefishponds] i need  some pond plants
Message-ID: <001b01c1fdfe$129ec4c0$bfa4e4d8 at bendcable_com>

Robert,

Your point is well taken.  My interpretation of the basic problem is many
of
the purveyors aren't interested enough to educate themselves about native
species or anything else.  From what I have seen, the average retailer of
aquatic plants is simply a hobbyist with a profit motive.  They didn't
bother to put in the time to either gain an education or to simply learn
on
their own (or preferably both!).  If they were interested in doing the
right
thing, they would NEVER sell parrots feather!  The trouble for the
recreational pond owner goes much deeper than even the invasive plants
since
the pond industry is geared more towards selling products than providing
any
knowledgeable solutions.  Again, this phenomenon is spawned from a lack
of
knowledge coupled with the profit motive.

Of course I do enjoy the profits of my business, but even more rewarding
is
the ability to create these habitats.  I am much happier discussing
habitat
issues rather than putting together a bill.

As for the troubles with collecting wild plants, that is an interesting
issue when you consider the amount of time the government invests in
monitoring and control of invasive species.  I hope it is legal in most
places to collect a few plants here and there.  For sure, it must be
legal
to collect them from a private pond or stream.  In fact Elodea is
probably
thick in a pond within a short distance of everyone on this email list! 
Go
find it and the landowner will probably gladly give it to you.

I have never done a general comparison of the cost of native vs. domestic
plants, but I do know that a couple of the sources I use actually sell
the
native plants I mentioned cheaper than any of the so called pond industry
"professional" suppliers.  I encourage folks to look under the heading of
native wetland nurseries instead of pond plants the next time they want
to
vegetate a pond.  These wetland nurseries seem to be much more
technically
knowledgeable and deserve your business much more than the self
proclaimed
pond professionals.

The two sources I can think of off the top of my head are
www.nwplants.com
and www.freshwaterfarms.com. I like them because they care about doing
the
right thing, their prices are reasonable, and they enjoy learning. Their
brooklime prices are also half of what the pond plant suppliers charge. 
The
last price I saw for brooklime was  $1 per plant compared to the typical
$3
charged by the pond industry.

There are other good resources to find new and better pond plants.  Start
with your local native plant society.  I did a search on www.Google.com
and
found native plant societies for at least 25 states.  Click here =>
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&q=native+plant+society
If you can't find one for your state, the neighboring state group can
probably help.

They have helped me find local plant sources for my clients, as well as
suggesting local native species that I wasn't aware of.  Your local
University department of botany is also another helpful source.  All of
these people are interested in helping people use the best native
vegetation
instead of invasives.  They are happy to help.

My general feeling is if a hobbyist is interested enough to advance to
raising native fish instead of domestic overpriced CARP, they may also be
interested to populate their ponds with very attractive native plants.



Brad Kerr
Senior Fishery Biologist
Spring Creek Aquatic Concepts
www.AquaHabitat.com
(541) 382 6320
'Planning, design and management of lakes, ponds and streams'


-----Original Message-----
From: robert a rice [mailto:robertrice at juno_com]
Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 3:55 PM
To: Nativefishponds at yahoogroups_com
Subject: Re: [Nativefishponds] i need some pond plants


Brad,
I agree with you but would like to add that the nursery industry in
general is the main culprit while the pet industry remains thier
accomplice. Instead of educating they take the low road and and push the
same ole same ole....

How many misplaced redmaples and honeysuckles are out there ?


As for the average ponder on a budget what are his options ? many states
wont allow recreational collecting of local species and many ponders have
neither the time or inclinationation to collect or learn about local
species. So is thier a solution besideds hours in the field and or in the
library doing research. Yes there is, vote with your dollars.

That is where discusssions like this become powerfull. If we can motivate
the consumers to demand more, the retailers will give it to them. So I
ask people to ask retailers to supply local species suitable for the
pond. Most likley it wont make a difference this year ,but if enough
people ask for long enough sooner or later someone will offer the safer
species then the question will be answered is it financially viable to go
native for the pet/pond/nursery industry.



On Fri, 17 May 2002 15:04:06 -0700 "Brad Kerr" <Brad at aquahabitat_com>
writes:
> Since we are a group of people interested in native fish, then
> shouldn't we
> also be interested in native vegetation as well?  After all if we
> destroy
> native habitats by introducing invasive non-native plants, then
> where will
> our native fish live?
>
> Invasive plants that the pond market irresponsibly sells have
> caused
> millions in damage to ponds, lakes and streams across North America.
>  Lets
> do our part to promote healthy native habitats by shunning these
> damaging
> non-native plants such as water hyacinth, parrots feather, eurasian
> water
> milfoil, water lettuce and alligator weeds etc.
>
> Here is a good place to start your search to make sure the
> vegetation you
> want is native:  http://aquat1.ifas.ufl.edu/seagrant/invlists.html
> Click on
> your state to get at least a partial list of invasive species.
>
> Here is another quality information source for native vegetation:
> http://plants.usda.gov/index.html.
>
>
> Even though tropical plants freeze out in cold climates, things
> still go
> wrong.  For instance grass carp are now suppose to be moving into
> Lake
> Michigan.  As you know, these fish are all "suppose" to be sterile
> before
> using them to control vegetation.  I have personally seen
> parrotsfeather
> surviving in places where it was supposedly not a problem because it
> was
> "too cold".
>
> Here is a short list of native aquatic plants to use instead of the
> invasives that uninformed pond "professionals" are promoting:
>
> American water weed  (Elodea canadensis)   except TX,LA
>
> coontail / hornwort  (Ceratophyllum demersum)
>
> American brooklime  (Veronica americana) except LA,MS,AL,FL,GA
>
> water purslane / marsh seedbox ( Ludwigia palustris) except
> MT,ND,SD,WY,CO,UT,NV
>
> This is just a quick short list to get started.  You can see there
> are areas
> where some plants are not native.  Use the invasives lists above, to
> develop
> a list for you own area.  There are many native wetland flowering
> plants
> which have limited distribution(i.e. seep monkeyflower [Mimulus
> guttatus] ).
> They are at least as attractive as the invasives.
>
> One last thought,  if you think nonative plants and animals will not
> escape
> your garden pond, please think again.
>
>
> Brad Kerr
> Senior Fishery Biologist
> Spring Creek Aquatic Concepts
> www.AquaHabitat.com
> (541) 382 6320
> 'Planning, design and management of lakes, ponds and streams'
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DAN_BRONCO_FAN [mailto:dan_bronco_fan at yahoo_com]
> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2002 1:39 PM
> To: Nativefishponds at yahoogroups_com
> Subject: [Nativefishponds] i need some pond plants
>
>
> i need several water lettuce plants for my pond and water hyanths
> too so if any one have any xtra ones they dont want ill be happy to
> take em off your hands for you and if you got any other extra water
> gardening plants ill take those too but if your selling the
> shipping
> and the price got to be low water lettuce and hyanths  to me are
> worth only a 1.00 and shipping has to be low too thank you
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nativefishponds-unsubscribe at yahoogroups_com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Nativefishponds-unsubscribe at yahoogroups_com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


Robert Rice - NFC president   www.nativefish.org


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nativefishponds-unsubscribe at yahoogroups_com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Take the Yahoo! Groups survey for a chance to win $1,000.
Your opinion is very important to us!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/NOFBfD/uAJEAA/Ey.GAA/ANOolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Nativefishponds-unsubscribe at yahoogroups_com


Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/