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Re: Hard water and BBA

> Tom Barr writes:
> > I have never seen a plant that has to be a soft water plant
> to
> >  grow well.
> >  If anyone "thinks" there is such plant **I dare** you to
> >  respond:)
> > 
> Well... I didn't really wish to engage in mortal combat with
> you, Tom, and I 
> left my sword at the dry cleaners. 

It needn't be mortal:)

 But I would like to
> comment that I've 
> never had any success growing Cabomba in my rock-hard Nevada
> water, and 
> that's with as much as 25 ppm CO2.   I've also had great
> difficulty with 
> certain Echinodorus, such as E. ozelot.  

Try another. Been there, done that, easy stuff. One came up with
some Crypt nurii which is hell to grow in the long term below
the water line regardless of hardness. The closest canidate yet
is EustralisStellata. That is always a topic when Steve and I
get together. So I have also had it going along fine then it
crashes as well in hard water also. He does testing to see
what's going on like myself. He has extremely soft water very
pure etc and adds KH and GH to get it to about 4-5 or so. It's
like reconstituted RO water. The ES does well then crashes for
some unknown reason for him also. Many Germans reported this as

I know lots of people
> such as 
> yourself who live in an exceptionally soft water area say that
> hard water is 
> no problem, even though you don't have to deal with it on a
> daily basis...  

Au contair. I live in Goleta CA, although I'm in the Bay Area at
the moment doing some tanks. The tap at my home tanks are at a
GH of 24 and KH of 8. The PO4 is 0.06mg/l. I grow all that stuff
easy. Would you like to buy a nice big blood red rubin sword
from my tank? Perhaps some Red Cabomba? I do add lots of K
(30ppm) to my water(to at least 1.0ppm) and a fair amount of
TMG(Fe is about 1.0ppm so)Several folks have reports of good
success with SeaChem so I may switch later.
I do not have much NO3 in my water although I did add some
before I left. I maintain low NO3's and high everything else.
Much better luck doing this for myself. I can overfeed my fish
too. It just turns into plant food:)

> However, I live in a hard water area, and I can tell you that
> I've had 
> nothing but problems growing plants in it.  Those problems go
> away quickly if 
> I dilute out my water with 1/2 or 2/3 distilled water.  Now,
> while you have 
> the sword to my throat, you might please explain why my
> experience does not 
> match your theory?

There could be a number of things.
CO2. Maintain a good CO2 level and this will not happen. Not
just one single morning reading but a good watch over the course
of the trial. I study, write, read etc in plain veiw of my
digital moniters and test often other things. At a glance I know
what my CO2 is (20ppm min to about 35ppm max). Both plants like
NO3, K+ and PO4. You could've missed something there when you
did your water changes. DIY CO2?
There may be high Na in your Vegas water. You might not have any
PO4. There are many other things besides hardness. Many folks do
not test nor rule out the other factors and attibute things to
parameters that are not the cause. My plants grew like caca at
first but I started adding PO4 since previously I had lots in
Marin. I was conservative at first and had moderately good
responses. I add a large amount to raise it up to the levels in
the old tap(1.2ppm) waters and a bit higher even. My plants
strated doing much better once again like in Marin which has a
KH of 5 and GH of 9.
My GH shot up greatly down here while my PO4 plumetted. So was
it the GH or the PO4? Clearly, testing showed the causitive
agent was in fact, my PO4.                 

I've seen swords growing in salt estuaries next to pickleweed.
It doesn't get much harder than that. Most every SFBAAPS memeber
has seen the weeds growing in the sewer next to my old place in
Marin. A 3 foot sword plant and all over the place they appear
like weeds.That sewer drain gets salt brine at high tides.
Swords are tough customers. I dount Na is your problem. It's
possible but seems unlikely.

Need more details about the set up and tap. What's the GH and
What else do you add? Is KNO3 added? Is this added after a water
change? Is it DIY CO2?

How come others can do fine with swords etc in hard waters?
When we do special things like add Distilled water etc we often
take a little better care of our tanks sometimes...
I use to add RO water. My problems went away when I stopped
using it completely. Keeping CO2 in a good range and the
nutrients is the key. Every store owner in town said I'd have to
get an RO or buy distilled water etc. I just keep bring in the
plants to trade and smile.
Tom Barr
And :

> From: kristiananderson at att_net
> Subject: The dreadded (gasp!) BBA
> I've noticed an outbreak of BBA in my 30 gallon tank 
> during the past couple of weeks and was wondering if it 
> could be related to the fact that my DIY CO2 generator 
> died a couple weeks back and I haven't had a chance to 
> recharge it?  I'm thinking that without the CO2 the 
> plants metabolism has slowed down and they aren't taking 
> up the excess nutrients they used to? 

You figured out your own problem:)

>Please don't give me the "nutrient lecture", 
> I'm well aware!  ;)
Add some SAE's, like 4-6 of them. Feed your fish once day. SAE's
cannot live on BBA alone:)CO2 is a nutrient. End of lecture:)
Tom Barr

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