OK, Steve, since you volunteered to help us find plants we are looking for, I am seeking Vallisneria torta (also called tortissima and tortafoglio, I believe). It is somewhat like corkscrew val but turns 10-20 half turns per leaf, not 3-6. Does anyone know how I can get some? TFP claims to have it but it is reputed to be quite poor condition. Dave Dave Gomberg, Experimenta San Francisco CA USA gomberg at wcf_com