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Re: [APD] Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 29, Issue 49

> 1.	Within 12 hours after adding the phosphate remover, my long
> thread
> and hair algae stopped appearing.  I removed a badly infected
> plant, pulled
> the remaining algae off of the other plants and no more
> appeared.  Was it a
> coincidence?

Could be. But it's more complex in the reasoning, it's not so
simply like many would like to believe.
Algae, while initially taking a hit, respond fast to such
treatment, many assume this is the cure.

But while you can visually see the algae return/go away etc,the
plant's health is also affected greatly, but you do not see the
plants change that much initially, they have lots of reserves
for PO4 and are well adapted to low PO4 in general.

They, unlike algae, are not going to produce spores/seeds if
something goes wrong, they just sit and stop growing and wait.

Your notion does not talk about the effect on the plants, 
PO4 is needed to grow plants well.

Everyone here will tell you this. 
I had high PO4 in my tap, but I've consistently grown plants
better than anyone that does not add a source of PO4.

2-3ppm is not a limiting PO4 level don't you feel?
Clearly not, so does it cause algae? There must be other things
beside PO4 at work.

The effect from a PO4 remover is time based, you'll see this
> 2.	If you don't do water changes, doesn't it create "old tank
> syndrome?"


  How will it effect adding new fish?  I plan to
> have a fully
> stocked tank.

So do I:-)

What do you think plants do when they grow?
They assimilate what precisely?
You want the fish and their waste in there for the nutrients
they give to the plants.
> 3.	Can you have a non-Co2 tank with a partially planted tank?

Generally more plants=> less algae, 
The answer is yes, use floating plants, or use the min light
that will not kill the plant.

But if you think it'll be easy to have a few plantsand no alghae
in a non CO2 higher light tank, no , it'll be very hard.

I'm not sure if you have seen some of the open disppay scapes
that folks do, they have sand foregrounds and packed rear

Here's an example:

Side view:


Here's the tank 1 hour after we redid it:

At 4 weeks after the redo 


All he does is add CO2, has a couple of cansiter filters, not a
lot of light, does weekly water changes and adds nutrients via

I've done nothing after the set up since, so it's all his baby:)

Jeff Senske does large discus displays with open space, but all
these will be CO2 examples.


As long as you have about 50% planted, you should be okay, but
generally, more plants are better.

 Those swords are very agressive fast growing weeds and will
take up about 50% of this tank rapidly.
> 4.	My water changes are only 15-20 percent.  But I am assuming
> I am
> still removing enough Co2 to initiate an algae bloom.

You are not removing CO2, you are adding it enough to cause a
> 5.	OK, suppose I decide to start adding Co2.  I have a wet/dry
> filter
> and overflow.  I've looked all over the internet and can not
> find
> instructions on how to set up a system with my type of setup. 
> I would like
> to keep everything below and have nothing hanging.  Can you
> steer me in the
> right direction?

Sure, search Steve Dixon, Tom Barr, George Booth and wet dry
filters here on the APD.

> Thanks again for all your help.  

Note: a pair of canister's is all Boun's tank has. The plants
are easy to care for, they are ferns, Anubias, etc, while he has
CO2, the routine is very easy for him and the design is also
easy to maintain. Same with Jeff's layout.

Gardens need maintained, if you do not maintain them and only
want a small bit in the tank, then the trade off will be algae
or go to floating plants etc.

Boun's tank is far a high tech costly tank:

100 gal, 220w of lighting, A&H supply DIY, 2 canister filters,
CO2 etc.(tank = 45-65$, reg valve etc 70$, reactor: DIY= 10$).
EI dosing, cost: 20$ per year at most, mainly from the

As you can see, the fish are happy and doing well. 
You see few items in his tank and no one has removed anything
for the photo, that's because the weeds hide the equipment well.

This might give you some ideas for the 90 gal.
Crypts, Anubias, ferns, lower light, white sand foregrounds,
good CO2 and dosing 2-3 x a week is it. most folks feed their
fish more than 2-3 x a week so it's not tough at all and you can
do any size water change then and enjoy the PO4. 

You'll also make the $$$ back in plant sales on C'sL, Ebay or
Aquabid etc from using the CO2 and the $$ you'll save on PO4

Your layout and scape can take on many forms and openess, but
that is really up to you. This will give you more options and
cost you only a little more initially. 

In general, I am highly supportive of Non CO2 as well as CO2
methods, I like them both equally. The person's goals and work
load are the main determinants though.

My old 90 gal had a w/d and you could not see the skimmer box,
any thing at all since the tank was covered with plants. 

If you ever want to hide something, add a plant all over it.  
Tom Barr



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