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Re: [APD] Science

urville wrote:
> I would call that a theory. would the same thing happen on the moon? how 
> do you know?

Yes, the same thing would happen on the Moon. Newton's laws of 
gravitation predict what will happen no matter where you are in the 
Universe. As long as you know the mass of two interacting objects, you 
can calculate what is going to happen. That's what's so neat about a 
scientific law.

>>If you put x amount of sugar in y amount of water at z degrees, it will or
>>will not entirely dissolve, depending on the amount of sugar and the amount
>>and temperature of water. 
> ah dependant. and in a zero g room is it the same? how about altitude 
> does that factor it's certainly not the same everywhere is it?
>>These are scientific facts and they will not
>>change - 
> but they do change. but comparing what happens on the moon and what 
> happens on earth  or better yet every planet and body and saying they 
> are the same thing is exactly like saying this law applies all around. 
> again you didnt get the point i was trying to make. my apologies.

They are exactly the same on different planets, and even in different 
galaxies. Physical things obey the same laws everywhere in the Universe. 
There is no reason to believe otherwise.

> i'd say 85% of science if not more is theory.

And what do you base that calculation on? That sounds very suspiciously 
like something picked up from an evangelical Bible class or something.

> i disagree. it's enough for me. we have now moved from fact to opinion. 
> it's not enough for you. please dont torture me with it because after 
> ages of arguing and research and you say eureka it happens because, i 
> wont care cause it worked for me and i moved on long ago.

So, if someone told you that to get to Denver from Cheyenne, you had to 
drive I-80 to Salt Lake, take I-15 to Cove Fort, and then take I-70 east 
to Denver, you wouldn't care because it "just works"? You wouldn't be 
curious if there was a shortcut?

> and that proves what? your missing the point.you'll all argue ntil it's 
> forgotten and next week we'll all be talking about light again. No 
> papers will come of it, and it will disintergrate into nothing. Again my 
> point is why waste your time arguing it. Have your opinion, or fact if 
> you must. But dont argue it so passive aggressively, lose the 
> tones/attitude, and practice some humility.

Perhaps you can suggest a better way to tell someone that their theory 
violates already established laws of physics? That's not aggressive. It 
just is. This sounds like that "everyone's a winner" crud infecting our 
schools as we speak. The whole notion that we have to be gentle to 
everyone for fear of offending someone or upsetting someone is ridiculous.

>> There is a crisis of scientific education in this country, and your
>>statement that there are no definitive facts is just one facet of it.
> i disagree. plain and simple. I think it's your immediate attack on my 
> belief and that mentality thats wrong with science today. It's that I'm 
> so much smarter than you attitude.

I say if you have two people, one who accepts laws that have already 
been established and proven, and the other who does not, then the former 
is possessed of more knowledge than the latter. That's not an insult, 
just a fact.

  I'm sure kids love studying science
> only to have some pompous person gloating over them with ideas that 
> probably wont last through the next ten years. That wouldnt have 
> ANYTHING to do with it would it. I mean that kind of attitude wo0uldnt 
> drive common people from trying to learn would it?

I think you are confusing someone telling another when they are wrong 
with being pompous. Some things are just wrong no matter how badly you 
wish they weren't.

> can we do it on another planet? funny cause i think quite some time ago 
> there was a highly regarded scientific mind who would say the piano 
> would crush me on any body in this universe, maybe he would have even 
> said, and thats a fact. i wonder. i'm trying to steer this the proper 
> direction gently as possible here.

The piano will behave exactly the same no matter where in the Universe 
you chose to conduct this experiment. It will obey the F=m1m2/d^2 law. 
If the planet is as massive as Earth, or more, it will crush you. Even 
on the other side of the Universe.

I suppose the idea that there are immutable laws of physics bothers 
people who want the Universe to be a more mystic and supernatural place, 
but it isn't.

Jerry Baker
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