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Re: [APD] BGA --

Didn't mean to step on tender toes, Wright. And I wasn't
arguing that people *should* use Eryth for BGA treatment. I
just thought the a certain remark about antibiotics was a
bit extreme, not in refernce to BGA but re antibiotics
generally. Btw, a good book that deals with, among other
things, the subject of bacteria and adaptive resistance to
antibiotics is Laurie Garrett's _The Coming Plague_
(Penguin, 1994).

I don't think Eryth is high on the list of concern. It's an
old cure and the manufacturers seem to favor new ones.
Nonetheless, reckless use is not to be condoned. Just what
one counts as reckless tends to depend on one's personal

The mechanisms for adaptive resistance are somewhat complex
and some of them surpass such safegaurds as using the
entire prescription -- some surpass treatments that have
100% elination of a bacterium in agiven host. In many
cases, the resistance can develop in one bacterium and be
transferred to another. I think that's actually a bigger
problem and the stronger argument for restrictive use of
antibiotics than duration of treatment.

At one extreme, is the view that antibiotics should almost
never be used except when prescribed by a doctor for, as
Richard remarked, life and death cases. At the other end is
the view, or at least the convention in many countries to
legally allow antibiotics to be available for human
consumption over-the-counter without a doctor's

I don't know if the medical profession is of one mind on
the matter. It would seem that some doctors prescribe more
easily than others, or so some seem to say.

For that matter, I suppose using salt or copper to treat
Ick might eventually lead to salt or copper tolerant
strains. Although I think the adaptation time frame is
longer for those larger creatures.

I think fish caught in the wild or raised on large
commercial "farms" are routinely treated with an antibiotic
or two as a prophylaxis. What happens in our aquaria is
only the second, third or fourth treatment. And then
there's treatments given in some lfss.

I don't profess to know where to draw the line -- I know so
much less than the medical experts and they seem to draw it
in at least a few diff places.

It's a very complex issue. I hope my comments didn't sound
rash. I think rash judgements about such issues can be as
dangerous as not judgement at all.

Scott H.
--- Wright Huntley <whuntley at verizon_net> wrote:

>> >>--- "Richard J. Sexton" <richard at aquaria_net> wrote:
> >>
> > 
> >>>>Using antibiotics for anything except saving an
> animale
> >>>>      
> >>>>
> > 
> >>>life is irresponsible; it causes (other) bacteria to
> >>>build up
> >>>a resistance.
> >>>
> >>>    
> >>>
> > 
> > I agree. Restricting antibiotic use to life and death
> circumstances is a 
> > bit extreme but the ! at #$%^& public cannot be trusted to
> finish their 
> > perscriptions in full. 

 > Scott's posts are usually accurate and to the point. I
> nearly went 
> non-linear when I saw his post on this and am glad I
> cooled off a bit 
> before commenting.
> I contracted "fishkeeper's finger" (aka "swimmer's
> granuloma") a few 
> years ago. . .

> Failure to use antibiotics to get 100% cures has enabled
> this bug to 
> become resistant to all but three known (very expensive)
> antibiotics. I 
> took 2 Biaxin pills a day for over 6 months to get it
> down to where my 
> immune system could finish the job.. . .
> IMHO, there are no circumstances, even for a $50,000 Koi,
> that justify 
> the use of tetracycline, erythromycin, or any other
> broad-range (kill 
> everything) antibiotic on fish. You usually cannot dose
> them adequately 
> through the water, only by injection. [Even most vets
> don't know how to 
> do that correctly.] The bug you may not completely kill
> is usually not 
> the one you diagnose, but a quiet bystander in the
> aquarium water -- 
> like my Fish TB was.
> Antibiotics will not end a sore throat more quickly
> (except maybe by 
> placebo effect) and can't kill any known virus. Using too
> little, or for 
> too short a time, just creates resistant bugs. . . .
> BGA is trivially easy to cure, without producing any more
> resistant 
> *Staphylococcus aureus*

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