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[APD] Re: EM vs blackout

Tom said,

>>I cannot mention every possible method that folks try to get rid of algae,
>>some remove it once and expect it to go away. This seldom works. So how come
>>no one using EM knows/knew why and under what conditions the BGA came about
>>in the first place?

>As far as my experiences are concerned, I am pretty well convinced that the
>BGA came from nutrients leaching from a new soil substrate, before the
>plants had begun to grow.  And when they did begin growing, BGA ceased to be

So you claim that BGA is cause by excess nutrients?
Okay, which nutrient/s?
There are only 17 to chose from.
I think adding 5mls of TMG/Flourish 3-4x a week(you can add more if you wish)
Adding 1/4 teaspoon KNO3, 4x a week
Adding 1/16" teaspoon KH2PO4 4x a week
High GH

Where is my BGA?

As I've said in the past, the folks suggesting EM, never once have given a reason for BGA that made any sense.
Saying excess nutrients is not right nor tells you anything useful.
They have only adressed killing BGA, added some myth, nothing more.
Those that adressed the low NO3 assumed that BGA was fixing N2 gas and assumed N to be limiting.

Are you sure it's not from NH4/urea?
I've not been able to induce it(or other algae) from "excess nutrients" other than something like Urea/NH4.
These levels are quite high.

If it's as you say, why is it not repeatable under controlled conditions?

I've been able to induce staghorn, BGA, BBA, and others, low NO3 was the only thing that allowed BGA to come back repeatably. NH4 had little effect.
Perhaps I needed more, etc.
I doubt it though, many folks have done high levels of NH4 with fishless cycling.

None of them have had issues with BGA, just green water/staghorn etc mainly.
I think it's inoculation by the soil which is loaded with active BGA.

>I think this is consistent with the advice that you have given many times,
>that if one takes care of the plants, algae will not be an issue.  My
>experience certainly supports that.  But if the plants are covered with that
>blankety-blank BGA slime, they don't seem to grow, at least for me.  EM
>gives them a chance to get started.

So would blackout.
"Seem to grow"? The plants still grow. They might not spread out but biomass is still being accumulated.
If you use peat instead of soil or else boil/cook the soil or something to kill off the BGA which is your source of BGA, then you should not have an issue. 
You inoculate the the tank with actively growing BGA.
Spores are another matter(induced by low nutrients/high NH4 perhaps) and will be induced to bloom under different sets of conditions(eg low NO3).  

>Now, sure, the blackout works too.  But you are adding chemicals in addition
>to the blackout.  (OK, nutrients.)

You are adding things that grow the plants.
EM, algicides etc don't grow plants.

Folks that suggest EM, never addressed this issue/s.

>I wonder how the blackout and the added nutrients would work in a low tech
>environment that is also afflicted by a too rich substrate?  

It works in non CO2 tanks. The fish food is increased(the souce of N) and the result are the same, although things progress slower. 

The issue is inoculation with soil with active growing Oscilllitoria at start up.

I'd think the
>BGA would just return because the basic cause of the problem wasn't being

Yep, you got it.
Same deal with EM.

So how do not add too rich of a substrate?
Use Peat+gravel/flourite etc/boil/cook or otherwise oxidize the soil and kill the BGA.

Tom Barr

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