[APD] RE: Ranges/ratios

["Thomas Barr" <tcbiii at earthlink_net>]

>> N:P ratios for aquatic macrophytes is 10:1.
>> A 1:1 ratio of N:K+ will lead to excess since most
>> plants are 1.5N:1 K+.

>Thanks-- This is what I wanted to know. My tanks'
>successes and failures make a great deal more sense
>now.

Don't bet on it:)
I still scratch my head. 

I think Ghori's approach using the ratios will allow for the ranges to be
extended out further perhaps.
At least that is my hope. It also might click in folk's heads easier
hearing it a couple of different ways. 
I think is some ways, it simplies things more and will modify the dosing
routines to better match the plant's elemental make up.
Luxury uptake can fool you with this though. 

>So, with such a tight tolerance, how do we avoid
>micro-management? 

Well, I'm thinking of a decent KNO3 and KH2PO4 macro mix all in one.
The traces dosed separately.

I'll post another thread about this a bit later.

Now we are down to dosing 2 things besides CO2 which is easy.
With less light, 1.5 -2w'gal, you only would need to dose 2x a week, 2
things at most.
1.5 w/gal likely once a week depending on species.
Heck, add 2 things, CO2, 50% weekly water change and then that's it?
Yep.

That's less management than before.
That's also easier to explain and do.  
That's also more likely to give you/a newbie a higher success rate.

>Lemme see if I've got this right. If you add 5ppm N,
>and 5ppm K after a water change, would you need to add
>an additional 5ppm of K when (if) you replenish N?

If you added 5ppm of N with KNO3, you would add an excess of K of about 4x
more than the plant would use.  
Using KNO3, the K+ will always be ahead of the N.

> Or,
>would K+ only be dosed once per week: 10 total ppm of
>NO3 is dosed over the week-- 10ppm of K+ would be
>dosed at the beginning?

No, you don't _need any_ K+ separately dosed via K2SO4, KCl etc. All you
need is su[pplied except in RARE CASES with high fish loads, high tap water
NO3 levels, very low light, slow growth tanks etc. 
Using KNO3 to dose the N, you'll never run out of K relative to N, you will
always be N limited in the tank using KNO3.

>"Many Folks" weren't talking about algae-- Just plant
>growth. Really just K+. But since you brought it up...

Well how is the bare minmum a good routine for plants then?
If you run out for 3 days or more things can often go sour. 
Having a little extra allows you to go a few days in between.
If you combine that with lower light, weekly dosing is all that's needed.
Higher lioghting will need more frequent dosing.  

>I believe that minimum amounts of macros do produce
>less algae in the omnipresence of CO2, Fe, and trace
>elements. Good plant growth alone is not enough to
>retard algae growth.  

Well, it will retard __new__ growth of algae, but not what's there already.
At some pouint you have to export what you add in the form of pruning,
algae removal, water change.
No way around that. 

Why does high PO4 not cause algae?
Why does high K+ not cause algae?
Why does higher NO3 not cause algae? I went to 75ppm with NO3. I did not
get an algae response over 3 weeks.
No fish were present in this tank, 4 w/gal, CO2, inert substrate(RFUG). 
I will say NO3 is the most problematic and will likely destablize a tank if
you keep it up or if the bulk of the N nutrients comes from fish watse(NH4)
etc.  
Later, I'd like to revist this nutrient range and see what issues are
involved with higher NO3 levels besides coloration of Red plants. 

>It's all micro-management-- Ranges, ratios, whatever
>you'd like to call it. "Many folks" happen to think
>that daily dosing is superior to 2-3 times a week, but
>I'd hardly call that micromanagment.

I don't stay at home every day. Folks go away for the weekend etc.

If you are trying to keep things at minmum, you have less leeway when it
comes to errors, that is micromanagement and a PITA, you get burnt
eventually, unless you want to invest in a dosing pump etc and even then.   

It's very much like having a lot of light, it's fine if you keep up on
things but if you don't, things crash harder.
That's the point. That's too rigid. 

 Further, daily
>dosing has nothing to do with algae control-- at least
>not for me. 

I certainly agree with you there.

>Boy, this thread has wandered...

I certainly agree with you there.

>Best wishes,
>John Wheeler

Regards, 
Tom Barr



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