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Re: Alello chemicals&blame

>Subject: Re: Trouble growing Vallisneria and Sagittaria
>I recall reading many years ago (60s) that these plants have an
>alelopatic (sp ?) incompatibility. Never kept both in the same tank.
>I observed that vals tend to, from time to time, develop yellowish leaves
>and shred them at the base, eventually dying off. The cure I always used
>mostly with success was simply to remove the entire bed and replant whatever
>healty remains I can salvage. They eventually recover. I always did that
>in non-plant tanks (plain gravel, UGF, low light, no fertilizer except fish
>food) but in my current high light + laterite + CO2 + PMDD plant tank I see 
>the same behavior and so far managed to fix it by replanting.

I can not confirm this. I have them both doing well in a tank. This may
still be the case but as far a general genera relationship I'd have to say
at least **in a tank**...........not true. I have a large stand or Sag's and
a large stand of Vals in the same tank. They both do very well. 20% water
change every 2 weeks.

If you suspect this ever -add carbon or do some water changes. Add/build
your fertilizer back and see what happens. Carbon will remove these
chemicals(big organic chemicals) and so will water changes. If you don't do
water change often(more than 2 weeks etc) in a small tank with a large
number this might happen.
I use to suspect this often but with water changes...........I haven't been
able to truely confirm it yet. I use to blame many things on this idea in
the past. The more I grow plants and try different combinations the more I
find that plant incompatibility isn't the reason to blame on poor plant
growth. It's balance, not alelleo-chemicals. If water changes are a part of
your maintenance you shouldn't have a problem here. 

The closest I have found and I'm going to test it again to see is
H.zosterfolia and Eichhornia diversifolia in a small 20 gallon tank that
gets 25% weekly changes. 
I keep more species than most in a tank.........
I also have grown many species(250+). While I haven't tried every combo nor
had perhaps a critical mass so these reaction might take place in each tank,
I have not seen ANY real true evidence yet of this in a **well** run plant
tank. My old ideas are not proving true and the plants can be grown in
many/any combinations together. 

If anyone on this list has some plants that they think are doing this please
let me know ..........I will grow them and report back if I haven't already
grown them together.

BTW, I am not saying that plants don't put out these chemicals in nature and
their effect there aren't true. In a well run tank that gets water changes I
think it is not an issue though. 
Tom Barr