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First step!

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to let you know that I got the four 40w fluorescent fixtures 
& bulbs today! I went with GE Wide Spectrum Plant & Aquarium bulbs ($5.97 
ea. at Wal-Mart). I must admit that I did stoop down tot he level of 
"Lights of America". Each fixture holds 2 bulbs, and 2 fixtures fit very 
nicely on my 55g. I'm very impressed with the results; bright, even, 
balanced light.

Next step: Prepare the substrate! Dupla Laterite or Flourish tablets?


-----Original Message-----
From:	Aquatic Plants Digest [SMTP:Aquatic-Plants-Owner at actwin_com]
Sent:	Friday, May 30, 1997 3:40 AM
To:	Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
Subject:	Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #740

Aquatic Plants Digest       Friday, May 30 1997       Volume 02 : Number 

In this issue:

	re. :Vancouver Stores
	Re: Nesaea and brown veins on new sword leaves
	NJ plant sources
	PMDD Results
	Stem Rot and Ludwigia reopens
	Artist's Clay? (fwd)
	Re: Iron Levels

See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the
Aquatic Plants mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.


Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 13:15:39 -0700
From: "Jos K.K. Liem" <liem at direct_ca>
Subject: re. :Vancouver Stores

Here in Vancouver we have an aquarium group of about 15 people
(Vancouver Aquatic Plant Group) where we exchange plants and  ideas.

Our webpage is at http://mypage.direct.ca/l/liem/VAPG.html. There are
some addresses on the page of Vancouver Stores.

Next month we probably have a meeting. If you are interested please
let me know.

Ir. Jos K.K Liem
E-mail: liem at direct_ca /Ph.+1-(604)525-7229
New Westminster BC Canada


Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 15:58:19 -0500
From: krombhol at felix_teclink.net (Paul Krombholz)
Subject: Re: Nesaea and brown veins on new sword leaves

>From: KHaggblom at aol_com
>Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 11:06:19 -0400 (EDT)
>To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
>Subject: Nesaea sp.
>Does anyone have any tips for growing this beautiful plant? I've found a
>great source for aquatic plants in Hackensack NJ called Reef Encounter. 
>have a ton of neat stuff, but all they could tell me about Nesaea is that 
>needs intense light and a rich susbstrate. Any help would be appreciated.
>khaggblom at aol_com
According to Kasselmann, Nesaea requires strong light and also benefits
from a nutrient-rich substrate and soft to "middle-hard", acid water.  It
should be grown in an open setting, not shaded by anything else.

>Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 12:23:32 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Jerrold Wen <alphaq at engsoc_carleton.ca>
>Subject: nutrient deficiency syndrome
>        Hi all, I've recently noticed that all the new leaves on my sword
>plants have brown veins.  Everything else seems OK.  This has happened
>before when I had just setup the tank.  What type of deficiency might this
...............<Description of tank conditions snipped>....................

This brown or reddish-brown coloration on the veins of new leaves isn't a
deficiency symptom at all.  It is a sign of good health and rapid growth.

Paul Krombholz                  Tougaloo College, Tougaloo, MS  39174,


Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 17:31:17 -0400
From: "Maladorno, Dionigi" <DIONIGI.MALADORNO at roche_com>
Subject: NJ plant sources

KHaggblom at aol_com wrote: <<<<< (...) I've found a
great source for aquatic plants in Hackensack NJ called Reef Encounter.
have a ton of neat stuff, but all they could tell me about Nesaea is
that it
needs intense light and a rich susbstrate. >>>>>

Have you had the chance to stop by the Aquatropics store in Clifton, NJ
(Rt. 46 W, just before the merger of Rt. 3 W)? They have consistently a
good selection of plants, normally in very good shape, although slightly
more expensive than at Reef Encounter (where unfortunately sometimes the
plants are quite "depressed": when in good shape, they are very
reasonably priced). Mr. Fish in Oakland, NJ does not normally have a
wide selection of plants, but it is a fact that the large Echinodorus
(bleheri. horemanni) I got from him have been doing consistently and
exceptionally well. He may be worth a stop, maybe after having checked
on the phone what the current availability is.



Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 18:21:56 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cynthia Powers <cyn at metronet_com>
Subject: PMDD Results

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mike Bateman <mbateman at erac_com>
To: "'Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com'" <Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com>
Subject: PMDD results...
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 10:15:04 -0500

I purchased a batch of PMDD ingredients from one of the folks on the list.
 I've been using Dupla's fertilizers with excellent results but wanted to
experiment with a potentially less expensive option.

The micronutrient mix that I purchased was Microplex.  It has a lower iron
content than the product used in the original PMDD recipe so the person I
bought it from recommended a double dose of the Microplex.

The aquarium involved is a 75g "optimum aquarium".  Eight hours of lighting 
using four VHO lamps(400W), pH controlled CO2 (pH=6.9), Dupla substrate
heating (Aquarium temp=77F), laterite in the substrate, Dupla fertilizer
regimen, trickle filtration (500gph pump).  Very few fish: Six SAEs, two
Cory cats, five small Rams, one clown loach.

Past history: Iron levels were maintained mostly by visual observation of
the plants.  Nitrate levels always zero.  Phosphate levels around 0.2ppm.
 Total hardness maintained at 80ppm, Alkalinity maintained at 55ppm.

Some of my observations...

The addition of the KNO3 has had a significant impact on the growth of my
plants.  This was demonstrated most noticably in Cabomba caroliniana.  The
Cabomba had a tendancy to grow well for a period of time and then, die back 
a little.  It would then start growing well for a month or two and then it
would start looking less and less attractive.  Since the addition of the
KNO3, the Cabomba has looked better than it ever did before and has not
died back in over 5 months.  I'm guessing that it is the additional
nitrate.  It could also be the additional potassium or a combination of

Microplex is, for the most part, worthless as a micronutrient mix (in my
experience).  In the past I have always gauged my micronutrient levels by
the red coloration of my Ludwigia repens.  If new growth started to look
green, then I need more iron.  I've always dosed my Duplaplant24 in this
fashion with wonderful results.  Using Microplex I was unable to encourage
ANY red coloration in my Ludwigia.  All new growth remained green.  Two
days of Duplaplant24 supplementation would give immediate results and the
red coloration would start to return.  This tells me that there is not a
sufficient amount of usable iron in Microplex.  I was affraid to increase
the concentration of the Microplex due to the high copper levels in
Microplex.  Although I was unable to maintain the red coloration of my
Ludwigia and Rotala species, all of the plants continued growing well.  I
only dosed PMDD by itself for about one month.  After that I gave up on it
and switched back to Dupla's products supplemented with KNO3.

I was able to observe rapid and significant phosphate reduction with the
addition of the PMDD mix and have been able to maintain unmeasurable P
levels since with the Dupla/KNO3 mix.  Before using PMDD I had high levels
of phosphates in this aquarium.

I remain sold on Dupla's fertilizers.  I may not know what's in them
exactly but they work consistantly well.  I remain on the lookout for a
better micronutrient mix.  I have been unable to find any locally.  Until I 
can find one that performs as well as or better than Duplaplant24 then I
will stick with that.



Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:09:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tim Mullins <tmullins at telerama_lm.com>
Subject: Stem Rot and Ludwigia reopens

A little while ago I posted that my
L.r. kept getting stem rot under a
variety of conditions. Now it seems I
can report my problem was temperature.
It doesn't seem to like temps around
80. Lowering to 73ish really seems to
have halted the rot. Other condidtions
like NO3, PO4, CO2, pH, gH, cH, Fe,
fish load, water changes, light level,
etc. remained reasonably constant
through the change. Live and learn!
Tim Mullins - Pittsburgh


Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 23:21:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cynthia Powers <cyn at metronet_com>
Subject: Artist's Clay? (fwd)

- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 20:44:40 -0700
From: Mike Bishoff <mbishoff at excell_com>
To: owner-aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Subject: Artist's Clay?

OK, here we go...

Until someone says no, I'm planning on using one-half to one pound of very
brick red artist's clay as a substitute for laterite clay. The supply house
tells me it's natural and high in iron oxide, therefore it's deep brick
color. Lots of other various other tones of "red" too, but this one seemed
the best for no other reason that gut feeling.

It may not be laterite, but it is locally and easily available. I'm
planning on letting it dry out and then smashing it into dust and mixing
with 2-3mm gravel and placing in first 1'' of substrate, then a layer of
fine sand and then 2-3mm gravel. *Very* low tech...


"It's easier to dream than do, so get to it."


Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:49:42 -0700
From: "Matthew Paul Rhoten" <mrhoten at surly_org>
Subject: Re: Iron Levels

> Date: Wed, 28 May 1997 14:48:40 -0400 (EDT)
> From: STDIXON <stdixon at bechtel_com>

> [...]
> My recent experience (say 6 months or so) has been that using enough PMDD
> (made according to the Sears/Conlin recipe) to achieve 0.1 ppm iron
> consistently results in hair algae and a darker brownish algae covering
> leaves of many of my plants, especially swords, anubias and h. difformis.

> Sometimes the algae has been quite severe, yet the iron levels remain
> 0.1 ppm.  [...]

Just another data point here. I have also experienced the same two kinds of
algae with Dupla24 + KNO3 fertilization. My iron levels range between .05
and .1ppm. I fertilize with KNO3 to a NO3 level of about 4ppm.

The hair algae in my tanks is a very light green, mushy-feeling or soft to
the touch, few-inches-long alga that is manually removable without damage
to leaves. It does not appear to fork, and seems to exist nearly entirely
anchored to leaves or glass. I have been told this is Cladophora. The
darker algae on leaves is a tougher encrustation. It reminds me of dead
cyanobacteria; my tank in question does have cyanobacteria in the
substrate. This second species is also manually removable with some
difficulty, but this is rather a pain to do to a two square foot bed of
Lilaeopsis as the twirling toothbrush removal doesn't work.

I am interested to see whether the tank is really iron-limited when the
iron levels drop, so I will lower the Dupla24 fertilization rate in this
tank and see if the algae problems lessen and if plant growth slows. (Note
to anyone who does this: If you do reduce the trace mineral input, monitor
nitrates very carefully, because if the plants' metabolism does slow down,
their nitrogen uptake will slow down as well!)



End of Aquatic Plants Digest V2 #740

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