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PMDD ingredient sources
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 6 Jan 1997 12:45:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Mullins <tmullins at telerama_lm.com>
X-Sender: tmullins at defender_lm.com
To: Aquatic Plants <Aquatic-Plants at ActWin_com>
Subject: PMDD: Sources & Doses
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.970106122030.25703A-100000 at defender_lm.com>
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I've noticed numerous posts inquiring as
to where to buy PMDD (poor man's dosing
drops) and how to use them. Hope this helps
<<< I'd be sure to keep these chemicals clear >>>
<<< of the kiddies ! Some are quite nasty. >>>
Tim - Pittsburgh
-------------------------------------
A) Sources for a chelated trace mix:
1) Plantex's "CSM" 1-905-793-7000 $26 US for 2 Kilos
314 Orenda Ave, Brampton, Ontario
L6T1G1 Canada
For breakdown, see part E
(Thanks to Kevin Conlin)
2) Miller Chemical & Fertilizer's "Microplex"
Hanover, PA
Distributor: NitroPhos 1-713-530-5558
I've never tried Microplex, but it has;
Mg-5.4% Bo-0.5%
Co-0.05% Cu-1.5%
Fe-4.0% Mn-4.0%
Mb-0.1% Zn-1.5%
(Thanks to Doug Skokna)
3) Home Grown Hydroponics
www.hydroponics.com
I've not checked them out
(Thanks to Suwat Phruksawan)
-------------------------------
B) Sources for MgSO4 and H3BO3
1) MgSO4 is available from just about any drug
store as Epsom Salts. $2 buys a lot. Note it's
hydrated (the form PMDD calls for) so it's
formula is MgSO4 + 7H2O.
(Thanks to Karen Randall)
2) H3BO3 is Boric Acid, a source of Boron. Also
available from drug stores, a couple buck buys
around 250mG, a lot.
(Thanks to Paul Sears)
-------------------------------
C) Sources for KNO3 and K2SO4
1) ECO Enterprises 1-800-426-6937
1240 N.E. 175th Street, Seattle WA
98155
KNO3 $5.98/ 5 lbs Agro grade
K2SO4 $5.98/ 5 lbs Agro grade
(Thanks to Doug Skokna)
2) PCI Scientific Supply
1-800-432-4136
KNO3 $16.75/500mG Lab grade
K2SO4 $15.50/500mG Lab grade
I've never tried this outfit.
(Thanks to Tom Polk)
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D) Source for complete pre-mixed PMDD per original
Conlin-Sears formulation (This is an attractive
option because if you gather your own ingredients,
you'll find you'll have enough to make barrels of PMDD).
1) Neil Schneider, Poway CA, PacNeil at aol_com
$30 for dry ingredients to make 5 litres of PMDD
plus labels and instructions.
(Thanks to Neil for making it easy)
----------------------------------------------
E) How to roll your own PMDD with Plantex CSM:
1) As noted by Tom Polk, Plantex's CSM now has no B (boron)
and therefore needs to have some added.
For a ratio of 7Fe to 1.26B (5.5 to 1)
- mix 14 parts CSM to 1 part H3BO3 (Boric Acid) by wieght
(about 10.5 tspns of CSM to 1 tspn H3BO3).
Here's the breakdown of CSM before and after adding Boron.
Regular CSM CSM+B
Fe 7.0% 6.53%
Mn 2.0% 1.87%
Mg 1.5% 1.40%
Zn 0.4% 0.37%
Cu 0.1% 0.09%
Mo 0.05% 0.05%
B 0% 1.18%
Co 0% 0%
2) Using Sears and Conlin's latest PMDD formula, mix with water
to make a 500mg solution:
1 tspn trace mix "CSM+B"
1 tspn MgSO4+7H2O (9 times Mg in trace so I added it)
1 tspn KNO3 (I need the nitrate)
2 tspn K2SO4 (remove that gummy black stuff when mixing)
-------------------------
F) How to dose with PMDD
1) I'D GO SLOWLY AND MEASURE !!!
Track Fe and NO3 with test kits. It takes
awhile (weeks) to build and stabilize
concentrations in the aquarium. With PMDD,
more is not necessarily better and, although
somewhat fault tolerant, too much can
be distressing or even deadly to both plant
and fish.
Everyone seems to recommend dosing PMDD for
reaching 0.1mG/ltr (0.1 ppm) of Fe (Iron) in the
aquarium and letting the other element
concentrations fall where they may. Consensus
is it is best to stay under 0.2mG/ltr of Fe.
Again, it will take awhile to reach 0.1 mG/ltr
target, go slow.
The target for NO3 (nitrates) said to be about
5mG/ltr (5 ppm). If your aquarium NO3 exceeds
about 5mG/ltr, you ought to reduce or eliminate
the KNO3 from the PMDD formulation accordingly
Based on my experience, for each ten gallons of a heavily
planted tank with 25% of water changed each week, use
around 1/4 ml of PMDD a day. So, for a 29 galllon tank,
use 3/4 ml PMDD a day. If you don't change as much
water as I do, I'd use less as indicated by part 3 below.
Oh, I'd try to be sure to stir the PMDD in slowly so fish
don't get hit with a "chemical cloud".
2) More of my experience. . .
So, did I follow my own advice and go slow ... no. <g>
I initially overdosed with 5ml PMDD a day in my
45 gallon tank (40 gallon water column) not knowing
better. I changed 25% of my tank's water each week.
Assuming no Fe depletion (a poor assumption since
the whole idea is to have plants use it, but still
useful for establishing a worst case upper bound) my
Fe concentration might have eventually leveled
off at 0.4mG/ltr. _Too high_ ! So, once I reached
0.1 mG/ltr (took about 2 weeks at the 5ml dose), I
reduced my PMDD dose to a little over 1 ml a day.
My plant growth has improved considerably. :-)
3) Now, some nerd stuff on dosing that most
can live without (If you spot an error, please
let me know):
a) CSM+B based PMDD's breakdown by element:
appox G/Ltr % of total Ratio to Fe
N 1.41 6.41% 3.06
K 13.80 62.53% 29.84
S 5.19 23.50% 11.21
Mg 0.95 4.32% 2.06
Fe 0.46 2.10% 1.00
Mn 0.13 0.60% 0.29
Zn 0.03 0.12% 0.06
Cu 0.01 0.03% 0.01
Mo 0.00 0.01% 0.01
B 0.08 0.38% 0.18
Co 0.00 0.00% 0.00
And two important quanities
NO3 6.26 -- 13.54
SO4 15.56 -- 33.63
b) Figuring the aquarium concentration of Fe
(or any element) after a single PMDD dose:
(PMDD concentration of Fe)*(Dose)/(water column)
in mG/ltr or PPM in ltr in ltr
my case: 5ml PMDD, 40 gallon (160 litre) water column
[(0.46G/ltr)*(1000mG/G)]*[(5ml)*(ltr/1000ml)]/(160ltr) =
_0.0144 mG/ltr Fe_ increase in aquarium as a result of dose.
c) Figuring the upper bound for concentration of Fe
after doing daily doses and weekly water changes
for awhile (this is a geometric series).
(daily increase from dose)*(days till change)/(% water change)
in mG/ltr or PPM in days in decimal
only valid if % change >> dose
my case: 5 ml PMDD dose daily, 25% weekly water changes;
(0.0144 mG/ltr Fe)*(7)/(0.25) =
_0.4mG/ltr Fe_ final aquarium concentration, 4 times too high!
So, I leveled off at a lower PMDD dose, about 1 ml a day.
Again, this all assumes no depletion, a lousy assumption,
so I'd measure Fe as you go. This calculation will at least
give you an "upper bound".
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