Re: [APD] Disposing of Unwanted Fish

["S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>]

Wonderfully nice counterexamples, although, my reply is that beg they question rather than prove it. 

Be that as it may, it does suggest some moral value to distracting the tetra at the appropriate moment. ;-)


----- Original Message ----
From: TBarber <terbarb at alltel_net>
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 4:23:37 PM
Subject: Re: [APD] Disposing of Unwanted Fish


Scott............I can refute your "not know you are feeling pain" issue.
Unfortunately, I have dealt with chronic pain off and on for about 15 years
now.   I have experienced often the situation where I'm not feeling well (or
maybe feeling grumpy) and later on realize that I am having "pain" - paying
more attention to it.........makes me aware of what the "discomfort" really
is.    I believe this is adaptive behavior.....It's very much like having a
radio on in the background.   The sensation becomes too "loud" and you
cannot actually tune it out any longer - time for medication perhaps.   In
time, I have become very good at being able to "tune it out" - learning to
minimize my "attention" to the unpleasant sensation.    And thankfully, due
to some better diagnosis - it's rarely if ever a problem now.   It is
amazing how your own brain can mess with you.

The other second "pain" situation I can relate is probably only possible
with some interesting drugs on board.  When I had my daughter by C-section -
The spinal anesthesia did not completely work - I was well aware of the fact
that I was being gutted like the pike in the previous story.   However,  As
I told the anesthesiologist at the time - That really hurts but it's like it
hurts somebody else - the sensation of pain was "far away".   Doesn't make
sense really but I knew there was "pain" - right after I said that - they
shot me full of something and out went the lights.  lol.

TerryB
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [APD] Disposing of Unwanted Fish


> If the inflicter or inflictee is not aware?
>
> If inflicter, then I'd say sure, I can feel a lot of pain ieven i fyou
don't know you just stepped on my dogs.
>
> On the ontehr side, I don't think I can have a pain that I don't feel,
especially ones that I have no capacity to feel. I might on rare ocassions
be uncertain about whether a particular sensation is pleasurable or painful,
but that's a whole diff thing.
>
> sh
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Chris Hotte <ecwh73 at gmail_com>
> To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 1, 2007 1:49:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [APD] Disposing of Unwanted Fish
>
>
> . . .
> Granted rocks aren't in possession of any sort of neurons....
> I guess your plant argument boils down to (no pun inten....) to: Is
> cruelness only limited to those who are aware?
> A fair question. Lets stand it on it's head: Is it cruel to maim and
> otherwise inflict pain if the inflicter is not aware of their acts?
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