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Re: [APD] Disposing of Unwanted Fish
But, neons are a fish of a different color?
Vaughn
On Apr 28, 2007, at 5:43 AM, S. Hieber wrote:
> The rub here is the degree of complexity of the nervous system.
> It's easy to anthropomorphize but it's not always correct. It had
> for a long time been suggested that ants organizational compacities
> for finding food was evidence of intelligient planning, yet the
> behavior can be explained with resort to only a few simple
> principles regarding stimulus/response re formic acid. The computer
> model is relatively simple. Ants lay down a bit of formic acid
> werever they go and they tend to follow along any trail of it
> already laid down. They also tend to feed and bring food back along
> the same trail to the nest. With this, random roamings tend rather
> quickly into regular lines between the nest and any found food.
>
> Ascribing mimicry of human speach to parrots is easy; ascribing
> word speach, much tougher.
>
> Is an ant aware of its own existence? I don't think it's very clear
> what would count and necessary and sufficient conditons for
> ascribing such a conscious state. It's easier with complex
> organisms and harder the father away one goes. Rocks--no nervous
> system at all an imputing consciousness would be farther than one
> could reasonbly stretch the notion. Ants, not as much of a stretch
> but still, the applicability is is a tough one -- some sort of
> sentience but existential consciousness, 2nd order intentions
> (thoughts about thoughts; thoughts about desires, desires about
> thoughts, etc.) -- for that there is little evidence in the
> behavior. Dogs, easier still. The folks behind the Apple Genius
> Bar? From what I've seen, that's a tough one as purely mechanical
> descriptions seem able to fully explain their behavior. But except
> the rock, all these things respond to stimuli.
>
> Compared to an apisto, a cardinal tetra is positively moronic in
> its behavior. I don't know what awareness a cardinal has of pain
> because it's unclear what sort of conciousness a cardinal might
> have. Given how much I don't know, I'd prefer the swiftest and
> surest method of killing a cardinal should the need arise. But I am
> not compelled to attribute human qualities or full rights of
> personhood to cardinals.
>
>
> sh
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Terry S. <tgs1 at rni_net>
> To: Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 8:16:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [APD] Disposing of Unwanted Fish
>
>
> According to the latest research, the limbic system is where we
> feel whether
> something is agreeable or disagreeable, i.e. "good or bad." It's
> also the
> location of emotionally charged memories. Fish have limbic
> systems, though
> not quite as developed as in mammals. Parameciums, earth worms,
> mushrooms
> etc do not.
>
> You can draw your own conclusions, but it seems very likely that
> fish do
> 'feel' fear (an emotion), let alone pain (a sensation) which as
> Jerry says
> is just a response to stimulus. There's been a lot of research on
> animal
> emotions in the last 10 years and the conclusions are pretty amazing.
>
> Terry S. in AZ
>
>
>
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