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Re: [APD] Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 31, Issue 53
Could you just please unsubscribe me? I'm not getting the email
with the password reminder. It's not like this is national
security, could you just unsubscribe me? Thanks.
Gilbert E. Martinez
---------Included Message----------
>Date: 24-Mar-2006 01:18:18 -0800
>From: <aquatic-plants-request at actwin_com>
>Reply-To: <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>To: <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>Subject: Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 31, Issue 53
>
>Send Aquatic-Plants mailing list submissions to
> aquatic-plants at actwin_com
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>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Flourish iron & KH drop (Kevin_Buckley at uk.neceur.com)
> 2. Re: Flourish iron & KH drop (S. Hieber)
> 3. Re: Flourish iron & KH drop (Kevin_Buckley at uk.neceur.com)
> 4. Re: Flourish iron & KH drop (S. Hieber)
> 5. Re: Flourish iron & KH drop (Kevin Buckley)
> 6. Re: Flourish iron & KH drop (David Aiken)
> 7. Re: Goldfish and Plants (Elizabeth Naime)
> 8. AGA meeting this year (Thomas Barr)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:27:24 +0000
>From: Kevin_Buckley at uk.neceur.com
>Subject: Re: [APD] Flourish iron & KH drop
>To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
>
>This seems to have prompted responses concerning the value of
pH
>controllers in CO2 systems!!
>
>Regardless of that, it would seem to be undesirable to have a
rapidly
>reducing KH (from 9deg --> ~2deg in just under 2 weeks).
>
>Do those of you who use Flourish Iron compensate for this by
some other
>means?
>
>Regards, Kevin
>
>>I just started using Flourish iron &, after a while, I noticed
that my
>plants had stopped pearling.
>>
>>I have injected CO2 & 330W of CF lighting in a 50g.
>>
>>I then noticed that, as I added a capful of Flourish iron, my
pH dropped
>a little.
>>
>>I tested my KH & found that, over a period of several days, my
KH had
>dropped from 160ppm to 50ppm.
>
>>The reason the pearling had stopped was that my CO2 controller
(set to pH
>= 7.3) was no longer injecting CO2!!
>>
>>I added a few teaspoons of Sodium Bicarbonate to raise the KH
&
>everything returned to normal.
>>
>>I just did a quick test ...
>>
>>My tapwater has a KH of 180ppm. I added 5ml of Flourish iron
to 2L of
>tapwater & waited 30m.
>>
>>The KH had dropped to 140ppm.
>>
>>Has anyone else had this problem?
>>
>>Regards, Kevin
>>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:48:01 -0800 (PST)
>From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
>Subject: Re: [APD] Flourish iron & KH drop
>To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>
>I'm suspecting that organic acids that form in the tank between
water changes are taking down the KH, and that it doesn't
necessarily have a direct connection to the Flourish Iron.
>
>If I wanted to increase KH, I'd add calcium carbonate or baking
soda, which I do with each water change just because my tapwater
has virtually no carbonates.
>
>sh
>
>* * * * * * * * * * *
>November too cold? Too hot? How would you like to spend part of
it in San Francisco? Cable cars, Lombard St., Chinatown -- and a
simply huge aquatic plant auction.
>
>The 2006 Aquatic Gardeners Association Convention will be
November 10-12 at the Sheraton Gateway Hotel -- San Francisco
International Airport.
>
>Details will be posted soon at http://www.aquatic-
gardeners.org/
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Kevin_Buckley at uk.neceur.com
>To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
>Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 1:27:24 PM
>Subject: Re: [APD] Flourish iron & KH drop
>
>
>This seems to have prompted responses concerning the value of
pH
>controllers in CO2 systems!!
>
>Regardless of that, it would seem to be undesirable to have a
rapidly
>reducing KH (from 9deg --> ~2deg in just under 2 weeks).
>
>Do those of you who use Flourish Iron compensate for this by
some other
>means?
>
>Regards, Kevin
>
>>I just started using Flourish iron &, after a while, I noticed
that my
>plants had stopped pearling.
>>
>>I have injected CO2 & 330W of CF lighting in a 50g.
>>
>>I then noticed that, as I added a capful of Flourish iron, my
pH dropped
>a little.
>>
>>I tested my KH & found that, over a period of several days, my
KH had
>dropped from 160ppm to 50ppm.
>
>>The reason the pearling had stopped was that my CO2 controller
(set to pH
>= 7.3) was no longer injecting CO2!!
>>
>>I added a few teaspoons of Sodium Bicarbonate to raise the KH
&
>everything returned to normal.
>>
>>I just did a quick test ...
>>
>>My tapwater has a KH of 180ppm. I added 5ml of Flourish iron
to 2L of
>tapwater & waited 30m.
>>
>>The KH had dropped to 140ppm.
>>
>>Has anyone else had this problem?
>>
>>Regards, Kevin
>>
>_______________________________________________
>Aquatic-Plants mailing list
>Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 21:38:27 +0000
>From: Kevin_Buckley at uk.neceur.com
>Subject: Re: [APD] Flourish iron & KH drop
>To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
>
>It's not organic acids. As I said in the original post, I
added 5ml of
>Flourish iron to 2L of tapwater & in 30 minutes the KH dropped
from 10
>degrees to 7.5 degrees. Nothing else added!
>
>Anyway, I know the rate at which the KH drops in my 50g - I've
been
>running it (& monitoring it) continuously since 1997. It's
definitely the
>Flourish iron which I've just started using.
>
>At the moment I use Sodium Bicarbonate if I (rarely) have to
adjust KH. I
>don't want to add anything with Calcium in it because my GH is
naturally
>very high.
>
>I'd like to try using Potassium Bicarbonate (because I don't
really want
>to add Sodium) but I can't find a supplier in the UK.
>
>Regards, Kevin
>
>>I'm suspecting that organic acids that form in the tank
between water
>changes are taking >down the KH, and that it doesn't
necessarily have a
>direct connection to the Flourish Iron.
>>
>>If I wanted to increase KH, I'd add calcium carbonate or
baking soda,
>which I do with each >water change just because my tapwater has
virtually
>no carbonates.
>>
>>sh
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>
>>>Kevin Buckley wrote:
>>>
>>>This seems to have prompted responses concerning the value of
pH
>>>controllers in CO2 systems!!
>>>
>>>Regardless of that, it would seem to be undesirable to have a
rapidly
>>>reducing KH (from 9deg --> ~2deg in just under 2 weeks).
>>>
>>>Do those of you who use Flourish Iron compensate for this by
some other
>>>means?
>>>
>>>Regards, Kevin
>>>
>>>>I just started using Flourish iron &, after a while, I
noticed that my
>>>>plants had stopped pearling.
>>>>
>>>>I have injected CO2 & 330W of CF lighting in a 50g.
>>>>
>>>>I then noticed that, as I added a capful of Flourish iron,
my pH
>dropped
>>>>a little.
>>>>
>>>>I tested my KH & found that, over a period of several days,
my KH had
>>>>dropped from 160ppm to 50ppm.
>>>>
>>>>The reason the pearling had stopped was that my CO2
controller (set to
>pH
>>>>= 7.3) was no longer injecting CO2!!
>>>>
>>>>I added a few teaspoons of Sodium Bicarbonate to raise the
KH &
>>>>everything returned to normal.
>>>>
>>>>I just did a quick test ...
>>>>
>>>>My tapwater has a KH of 180ppm. I added 5ml of Flourish
iron to 2L of
>>>>tapwater & waited 30m.
>>>>
>>>>The KH had dropped to 140ppm.
>>>>
>>>>Has anyone else had this problem?
>>>>
>>>>Regards, Kevin
>>>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 15:30:53 -0800 (PST)
>From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
>Subject: Re: [APD] Flourish iron & KH drop
>To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>
>Maybe we will hear from Dr. Morin.
>
>sh
>
>* * * * * * * * * * *
>November too cold? Too hot? How would you like to spend part of
it in San Francisco? Cable cars, Lombard St., Chinatown -- and a
simply huge aquatic plant auction.
>
>The 2006 Aquatic Gardeners Association Convention will be
November 10-12 at the Sheraton Gateway Hotel -- San Francisco
International Airport.
>
>Details will be posted soon at http://www.aquatic-
gardeners.org/
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Kevin_Buckley at uk.neceur.com
>To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
>Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:38:27 PM
>Subject: Re: [APD] Flourish iron & KH drop
>
>
>It's not organic acids. As I said in the original post, I
added 5ml of
>Flourish iron to 2L of tapwater & in 30 minutes the KH dropped
from 10
>degrees to 7.5 degrees. Nothing else added!
>
>Anyway, I know the rate at which the KH drops in my 50g - I've
been
>running it (& monitoring it) continuously since 1997. It's
definitely the
>Flourish iron which I've just started using.
>
>At the moment I use Sodium Bicarbonate if I (rarely) have to
adjust KH. I
>don't want to add anything with Calcium in it because my GH is
naturally
>very high.
>
>I'd like to try using Potassium Bicarbonate (because I don't
really want
>to add Sodium) but I can't find a supplier in the UK.
>
>Regards, Kevin
>
>>I'm suspecting that organic acids that form in the tank
between water
>changes are taking >down the KH, and that it doesn't
necessarily have a
>direct connection to the Flourish Iron.
>>
>>If I wanted to increase KH, I'd add calcium carbonate or
baking soda,
>which I do with each >water change just because my tapwater has
virtually
>no carbonates.
>>
>>sh
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>
>>>Kevin Buckley wrote:
>>>
>>>This seems to have prompted responses concerning the value of
pH
>>>controllers in CO2 systems!!
>>>
>>>Regardless of that, it would seem to be undesirable to have a
rapidly
>>>reducing KH (from 9deg --> ~2deg in just under 2 weeks).
>>>
>>>Do those of you who use Flourish Iron compensate for this by
some other
>>>means?
>>>
>>>Regards, Kevin
>>>
>>>>I just started using Flourish iron &, after a while, I
noticed that my
>>>>plants had stopped pearling.
>>>>
>>>>I have injected CO2 & 330W of CF lighting in a 50g.
>>>>
>>>>I then noticed that, as I added a capful of Flourish iron,
my pH
>dropped
>>>>a little.
>>>>
>>>>I tested my KH & found that, over a period of several days,
my KH had
>>>>dropped from 160ppm to 50ppm.
>>>>
>>>>The reason the pearling had stopped was that my CO2
controller (set to
>pH
>>>>= 7.3) was no longer injecting CO2!!
>>>>
>>>>I added a few teaspoons of Sodium Bicarbonate to raise the
KH &
>>>>everything returned to normal.
>>>>
>>>>I just did a quick test ...
>>>>
>>>>My tapwater has a KH of 180ppm. I added 5ml of Flourish
iron to 2L of
>>>>tapwater & waited 30m.
>>>>
>>>>The KH had dropped to 140ppm.
>>>>
>>>>Has anyone else had this problem?
>>>>
>>>>Regards, Kevin
>>>>
>_______________________________________________
>Aquatic-Plants mailing list
>Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
>http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 00:28:37 -0000
>From: "Kevin Buckley" <kevin at buckley70_freeserve.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [APD] Flourish iron & KH drop
>To: <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>
>That's what I wondered ...
>
>Actually I hope so.
>
>If it is the Flourish iron it would be good to discuss how to
counteract the problem as I'd really like to continue to use it
as Seachem seem to make quite good products.
>
>A little while ago I also "upgraded" my gravel by adding a 7kg
bag of Flourite (when I originally set-up the tank I knew
nothing about aquatic gardening!).
>
>My MTS's have now "ploughed it in" & it seems to be a better
substrate for the plants.
>
>It looks better also.
>
>BTW - Someone mentioned that it would be better not to use a
controller & run the CO2 "open-loop" (with a solenoid connected
to the lights timer).
>
>I can see why some people might want to do that.
>
>I used to do that & the only real problem I ever had was if the
filter started to get clogged. At that point, the water flow
would start to slow & the CO2 concentration would rise. As long
as you keep an eye on it, it's no problem.
>
>& perhaps no worse than the problems associated with using pH
as a proxy for CO2 concentration (given the unseen changes that
can occur to the levels of KH).
>
>However, once I upgraded my lights to 6 x CF (55W each) I was
forced to "close the loop" & reconnect the solenoid valve.
>
>The reason is that, with the lights on, the demand for CO2
rises massively (& delivers really great plant development). If
I set the bubble rate high enough to satisfy the actual CO2
demand by the plants then, if plant growth became limited by
lack of some other nutrient, they would stop using the CO2 & the
increased concentration would certainly be fatal to the fish.
>
>Using the controller solves that problem.
>
>& for the record, I have the controller connected to a timer!
>
>It comes on about an hour before the lights - to get the CO2
concentration in the water column up, & goes off around the same
time as the lights.
>
>Kevin
>
>
>*******************
>
>Maybe we will hear from Dr. Morin.
>
>sh
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Kevin_Buckley at uk.neceur.com
>To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
>Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 4:38:27 PM
>Subject: Re: [APD] Flourish iron & KH drop
>
>
>It's not organic acids. As I said in the original post, I
added 5ml of
>Flourish iron to 2L of tapwater & in 30 minutes the KH dropped
from 10
>degrees to 7.5 degrees. Nothing else added!
>
>Anyway, I know the rate at which the KH drops in my 50g - I've
been
>running it (& monitoring it) continuously since 1997. It's
definitely the
>Flourish iron which I've just started using.
>
>At the moment I use Sodium Bicarbonate if I (rarely) have to
adjust KH. I
>don't want to add anything with Calcium in it because my GH is
naturally
>very high.
>
>I'd like to try using Potassium Bicarbonate (because I don't
really want
>to add Sodium) but I can't find a supplier in the UK.
>
>Regards, Kevin
>
>>I'm suspecting that organic acids that form in the tank
between water
>changes are taking >down the KH, and that it doesn't
necessarily have a
>direct connection to the Flourish Iron.
>>
>>If I wanted to increase KH, I'd add calcium carbonate or
baking soda,
>which I do with each >water change just because my tapwater has
virtually
>no carbonates.
>>
>>sh
>>
>>----- Original Message ----
>>
>>>Kevin Buckley wrote:
>>>
>>>This seems to have prompted responses concerning the value of
pH
>>>controllers in CO2 systems!!
>>>
>>>Regardless of that, it would seem to be undesirable to have a
rapidly
>>>reducing KH (from 9deg --> ~2deg in just under 2 weeks).
>>>
>>>Do those of you who use Flourish Iron compensate for this by
some other
>>>means?
>>>
>>>Regards, Kevin
>>>
>>>>I just started using Flourish iron &, after a while, I
noticed that my
>>>>plants had stopped pearling.
>>>>
>>>>I have injected CO2 & 330W of CF lighting in a 50g.
>>>>
>>>>I then noticed that, as I added a capful of Flourish iron,
my pH
>dropped
>>>>a little.
>>>>
>>>>I tested my KH & found that, over a period of several days,
my KH had
>>>>dropped from 160ppm to 50ppm.
>>>>
>>>>The reason the pearling had stopped was that my CO2
controller (set to
>pH
>>>>= 7.3) was no longer injecting CO2!!
>>>>
>>>>I added a few teaspoons of Sodium Bicarbonate to raise the
KH &
>>>>everything returned to normal.
>>>>
>>>>I just did a quick test ...
>>>>
>>>>My tapwater has a KH of 180ppm. I added 5ml of Flourish
iron to 2L of
>>>>tapwater & waited 30m.
>>>>
>>>>The KH had dropped to 140ppm.
>>>>
>>>>Has anyone else had this problem?
>>>>
>>>>Regards, Kevin
>>>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 12:21:10 +1000
>From: David Aiken <daiken at iprimus_com.au>
>Subject: Re: [APD] Flourish iron & KH drop
>To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>
>
>On 24/03/2006, at 7:38 AM, Kevin_Buckley at uk.neceur.com wrote:
>
>> It's not organic acids. As I said in the original post, I
added
>> 5ml of Flourish iron to 2L of tapwater & in 30 minutes the
KH
>> dropped from 10 degrees to 7.5 degrees. Nothing else added!
>>
>> Anyway, I know the rate at which the KH drops in my 50g -
I've been
>> running it (& monitoring it) continuously since 1997. It's
>> definitely the Flourish iron which I've just started
using.<snip>
>
>
>So how much are you using?
>
>Seachem recommend dosing at 0.5 to 1 ml per 40 litres as
required in
>order to maintain iron levels at 0.1 mg/l.
>
>You've got a 50 gallon = 200 litre tank. Are you dosing 500 ml
of
>Flourish Iron in your tank each time, because that's the
equivalent
>to what you're adding to your 2 l sample.
>
>Your test uses an absolutely massive dose and the EDTA in the
product
>may well be doing something with the carbonates in the water
when
>added at those concentrations. The question isn't what the
product
>does at those concentrations. It's what does it do at the
>concentrations you dose your tank at.
>
>You've got a 50 gallon tank. That's 200 litres. You're using a
2
>litre sample. Divide the normal dose you give your tank by 100,
add
>that to a 2 L sample of water, and see what that does. If that
causes
>the KH to drop, then maybe your test is giving you the answer
to why
>your KH is dropping, but if a test using the same concentration
of
>Flourish Iron in a 2 l sample that you actually dose your tank
with
>doesn't cause the KH to drop then you probably need to look
elsewhere
>for your answer.
>
>David Aiken
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 22:19:12 -0600 (Central Standard Time)
>From: Elizabeth Naime <elspeth at kc_rr.com>
>Subject: Re: [APD] Goldfish and Plants
>To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
>
>Goldfish do love plants; you may try protecting your treasured
plants by
>providing lots of less-treasured plants to serve as the fishy
salad bar.
>They do like anacharis, and mine LOVE hornwort. This is a
problem as
>hornwort really mucks up our mechanical filters. Also, the
books I read
>said they prefer anacaris to hornwort, but my fish apparently
do not read.
>
>I would avoid putting anything really dear or irreplacable in
the goldfish
>tank, just in case they take a liking to its taste. Otherwise,
give them
>lots and lots and lots of anacharis (or hornwort if you can get
it and
>want to try it), and see if they like it. If they do you will
constantly
>be removing leaf-denuded stalks and adding more fresh leafy
greens. AND
>start planning that 55-gallon or larger tank in the back of
your mind, to
>move them into "someday..."
>
>Decor destructive, filter-intensive, dang nuisance fish, those
goldies.
>And worth every bit of it, aren't they! ;-)
>
>Elizabeth B. Naime
>...who has koi in the pond now, since the goldies weren't
tearing up the
>lillies enough...
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 01:14:21 -0800 (PST)
>From: Thomas Barr <tcbiii at yahoo_com>
>Subject: [APD] AGA meeting this year
>To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
>
>Mark yer calenders!
>
>"The 2006 Aquatic Gardeners Association Convention will be
>November 10-12 at the Sheraton Gateway Hotel -- San Francisco
>International Airport.
>
>Details will be posted soon at
>http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/";
>
>Regards,
>Tom Barr
>
>www.BarrReport.com
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
>http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>
>
>End of Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 31, Issue 53
>**********************************************
>
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