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Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks

To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
From: "Mariano F. Bonfante" <mariano_bonfante at hotmail_com>
Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2005 00:34:37 +0000
In-reply-to: <20050905235016.10101.qmail@web51713.mail.yahoo.com>
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Here?s an old photo. I think that the distance between rods is sufficient to 
allow uneven heating, even using the aluminum plate.

http://espanol.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/mfbonfante/detail?.dir=/b706&.dnm=a7e7.jpg&.src=ph


The total resistance is 60 ohms, The nominal voltage is 29v, thus 14 w.


Mariano





>From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
>Reply-To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
>Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
>Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:50:16 -0700 (PDT)
>
>It sounds like you've continued "bottom up" heating farther
>than most. Although, heating through a plate below the
>aquarium, would, I suspect, defeat one of the purported
>purposes of substrate heating, which is to create uneven
>heating that result in convections currents in the
>substrate that gently flush the substrate.
>
>Heating from the bottom can be more efficient (due to
>convection currents in the water column) if heat is in not
>radiated downward and away from the tank. Heat lost
>downward, probably offsets efficiency gains from the
>convection in the water column.
>
>Other have used heating mats, which have imbedded resitive
>tape for wire.
>
>Scott H.
>
>
>
>
>--- "Mariano F. Bonfante" <mariano_bonfante at hotmail_com>
>wrote:
>
> > Thanks for your message. Actually there are two resistors
> > connected in
> > parallel. They are placed outside the tank, so everything
> > is dry. This
> > heaters looks like an aluminum rod. In fact, they are
> > used in electric
> > devices such as irons, ovens, washing machines, etc. The
> > connector is a
> > constantan rod which gets out strait from the center of
> > the aluminum jacket.
> > Albeit standard, these resistors are prepared by order in
> > different shapes,
> > but have a maximum length available (that?s why I used
> > two of them). I place
> > the aluminum plate for temperature and weight
> > distribution over the
> > resistors, since the tank is placed over.
> >
> > Using resistors outside de tank is a fairly inefficient
> > method, but much
> > safer and easier to operate. I am using 60Vca for
> > avoiding electrical
> > shocks.
> >
> > Others prototypes I made use a silicon jacket cable
> > placed inside the tank
> > below the gravel, with a special resistor cable used for
> > heating valves and
> > pipes in the petrol industry. It is commercialized rated
> > in watt per meter,
> > currently 20w/m, 30w/m, or 40w/m.  Basically, there cable
> > core is a copper
> > pair which carries the main power. This pair has notches
> > from time to time
> > on the insulation, alternating form one cable and then
> > the other. A fine
> > constantan wire is warped over the mentioned pair, and
> > everything is
> > protected with a silicon jacket. The constantan wire get
> > in contact with the
> > main pair over the insulation notches, so this generates
> > small resistors in
> > parallel, thus the X w/m cable.
> >
> > This jacket show to fail over the time (5 years), due to
> > ingress of moisture
> > that corrodes the fine constantan wire, coming from
> > invisible leakages. I
> > placed the end of the cable outside the tank, and then I
> > made the splicing
> > with a regular cable up to the transformer. For 100G tank
> > I used 24 feet of
> > this cable. The problem was insulation of the wet end
> > placed inside the
> > water. I prepared a sturdy splice, made of sillicon
> > rubber and jackets. This
> > one doesn?t fail. In fact, these portion was OK when I
> > turn the system off,
> > the failure was placed closer to the center mark.
> >
> > The bad experience with the buried cable derive me to try
> > with the dry
> > alternative that I explain before, but perhaps there are
> > other materials as
> > you mentioned, that could be used for jackets in order to
> > leave the cable
> > underwater with no impairments. But I didn´t know about
> > them when I made the
> > last prototype. The other problem is that the cable could
> > be pulled out of
> > the gravel in case of unplanting, due to  roots wrapped
> > over it. This
> > happened to me many times.
> >
> >
> > Mariano
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
> > >Reply-To: aquatic plants digest
> > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > >To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > >Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
> > >Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >You have my curiousity sparked.
> > >
> > >So this is running AC at 60 volts? Why all the
> > resistors?
> > >To reduce the voltage across the across the substart
> > cable
> > >termina, I suppose. Why not let the substrate cable be
> > the
> > >only significant resistance. Those external resistors
> > are
> > >converting electrical energy to heat and then dumping it
> > >outside the tank. Is the substrate cable copper or
> > >nichromium?
> > >
> > >What is the voltage across the substrate cable termina?
> > >
> > >What kind of jacket is on the wire? Kapton? Teflon?
> > Vinyl?
> > >How did you seal the connections between the power lead
> > and
> > >the substrate cable?
> > >
> > >sh
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- "Mariano F. Bonfante" <mariano_bonfante at hotmail_com>
> > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Local outlets has 220V 50Hz, so I am using a 60Vca
> > > > (typical en CATV
> > > > industry), galvanic insulation transformer for
> > feeding
> > > > the resistors. There
> > > > is also a dimmer circuit, to allow two phases: day
> > and
> > > > night. Daytime
> > > > permits the substrate to be 1ºC above the water, nigh
> > > > phase just a bias
> > > > voltage.
> > > >
> > > > Resistors are outside the tank, with the following
> > > > configuration: a granite
> > > > plate over the tank stand, a Styrofoam plate (1/2
> > inch),
> > > > the resistors, an
> > > > aluminum plate (1 mm), and above the tank. Resistors
> > are
> > > > solid rod type
> > > > (industrial standard), arranged in zigzag.
> > Everything is
> > > > grounded for
> > > > safety issues.
> > > >
> > > > This system has been working for 2 years, it is very
> > easy
> > > > to check if it is
> > > > working properly.
> > > >
> > > > Cables buried into the substrate trend to fail in the
> > > > long term at least in
> > > > my experience. Moisture finds it way to get inside
> > the
> > > > jacket, and corrosion
> > > > did the rest. Other side effect was that long roots
> > wrap
> > > > around the cables,
> > > > therefore they were pulled out the substrate when a
> > plant
> > > > was removed
> > > >
> > > > I spent some time with these systems, but it is fun
> > and I
> > > > like it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mariano
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
> > > > >Reply-To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > >To: aquatic plants digest
> > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
> > > > >Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:10:55 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >Sure thing. I spent a tidy some for parts for CO2
> > mixers
> > > > >(a.k.a. reactors). Didn't have any use for them all.
> > > > Just
> > > > >playing around with parts.
> > > > >
> > > > >Is the heater AC or DC?
> > > > >
> > > > >sh
> > > > >
> > > > >--- "Mariano F. Bonfante"
> > <mariano_bonfante at hotmail_com>
> > > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > For sure, but pls consider that I have never
> > bought a
> > > > > > commercial heating
> > > > > > system. I have made my own prototypes with
> > standard
> > > > > > electrical stuff. Don?t
> > > > > > get me wrong, is a side of the hobby for me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > MFB
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > > > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > > > >To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
> > > > > > >Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:30:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Worth noting! That sound off in the distance
> > could
> > > > be
> > > > > > >someone shouting, "Told ya so."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Occassionally poking the substrate is a much
> > less
> > > > > > expensive
> > > > > > >way to accomplish the same result.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Scott H.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- "Mariano F. Bonfante"
> > > > <mariano_bonfante at hotmail_com>
> > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have been using different types of
> > substrate
> > > > > > heaters
> > > > > > > > since a long time,
> > > > > > > > when I first read about them. Although this
> > > > subject
> > > > > > > > became controversial
> > > > > > > > years after, I have experienced when the
> > system
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > working properly, that
> > > > > > > > chances of getting anaerobic spots is rather
> > > > scarce.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mariano
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: Stuart Halliday
> > > > <stuart at stuarthalliday_com>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: stuart at stuarthalliday_com,
> > > > aquatic
> > > > > > > > plants digest
> > > > > > > > ><aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > > > > > >To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > > > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
> > > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:19:10 +0100
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Mark Gilmore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Stuart - thanks for the tips of my
> > hydrogen
> > > > > > sulfide
> > > > > > > > disaster.  The trick
> > > > > > > > > > now will be catching fish in the densely
> > > > planted
> > > > > > tank
> > > > > > > > before I start
> > > > > > > > > > stirring up the substrate.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Good point.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >How about this idea. Put in an aerator on
> > high
> > > > for
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > hour or two so
> > > > > > > > >you've got lots of oxygen in the water and
> > then
> > > > poke
> > > > > > say
> > > > > > > > 10% of the
> > > > > > > > >substrate. Then leave it for an hour before
> > > > poking
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > next area.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >This way any nasty gases can't dissolve into
> > the
> > > > > > water
> > > > > > > > as it's already
> > > > > > > > >saturated with oxygen?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >--
> > > > > > > > >Stuart Halliday
> > > > > > > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > >Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > > > > >Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > > > > >
> > > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > >Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > > >Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > > >
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > >Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > >
> > >http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >* * * * * * * * * * *
> > >The September 15 deadline for entries to
> > >the AGA Inernational Aquascaping Contest is fast
> > approaching.
> > >
> > >Don't forget to indicate if you want your AGA entry to
> > also be an ADA (Aqua
> > >Design Amano) Layout Contest entry!
> > >
> > >All the info is here:
> > >http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org
> > >
> > >Share the fun and show your work!
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > >Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > >http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
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