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Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks

To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 16:50:16 -0700 (PDT)
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It sounds like you've continued "bottom up" heating farther
than most. Although, heating through a plate below the
aquarium, would, I suspect, defeat one of the purported
purposes of substrate heating, which is to create uneven
heating that result in convections currents in the
substrate that gently flush the substrate.

Heating from the bottom can be more efficient (due to
convection currents in the water column) if heat is in not
radiated downward and away from the tank. Heat lost
downward, probably offsets efficiency gains from the
convection in the water column.

Other have used heating mats, which have imbedded resitive
tape for wire. 

Scott H.



 
--- "Mariano F. Bonfante" <mariano_bonfante at hotmail_com>
wrote:

> Thanks for your message. Actually there are two resistors
> connected in 
> parallel. They are placed outside the tank, so everything
> is dry. This 
> heaters looks like an aluminum rod. In fact, they are
> used in electric 
> devices such as irons, ovens, washing machines, etc. The
> connector is a 
> constantan rod which gets out strait from the center of
> the aluminum jacket. 
> Albeit standard, these resistors are prepared by order in
> different shapes, 
> but have a maximum length available (that?s why I used
> two of them). I place 
> the aluminum plate for temperature and weight
> distribution over the 
> resistors, since the tank is placed over.
> 
> Using resistors outside de tank is a fairly inefficient
> method, but much 
> safer and easier to operate. I am using 60Vca for
> avoiding electrical 
> shocks.
> 
> Others prototypes I made use a silicon jacket cable
> placed inside the tank 
> below the gravel, with a special resistor cable used for
> heating valves and 
> pipes in the petrol industry. It is commercialized rated
> in watt per meter, 
> currently 20w/m, 30w/m, or 40w/m.  Basically, there cable
> core is a copper 
> pair which carries the main power. This pair has notches
> from time to time 
> on the insulation, alternating form one cable and then
> the other. A fine 
> constantan wire is warped over the mentioned pair, and
> everything is 
> protected with a silicon jacket. The constantan wire get
> in contact with the 
> main pair over the insulation notches, so this generates
> small resistors in 
> parallel, thus the X w/m cable.
> 
> This jacket show to fail over the time (5 years), due to
> ingress of moisture 
> that corrodes the fine constantan wire, coming from
> invisible leakages. I 
> placed the end of the cable outside the tank, and then I
> made the splicing 
> with a regular cable up to the transformer. For 100G tank
> I used 24 feet of 
> this cable. The problem was insulation of the wet end
> placed inside the 
> water. I prepared a sturdy splice, made of sillicon
> rubber and jackets. This 
> one doesn?t fail. In fact, these portion was OK when I
> turn the system off, 
> the failure was placed closer to the center mark.
> 
> The bad experience with the buried cable derive me to try
> with the dry 
> alternative that I explain before, but perhaps there are
> other materials as 
> you mentioned, that could be used for jackets in order to
> leave the cable 
> underwater with no impairments. But I didn´t know about
> them when I made the 
> last prototype. The other problem is that the cable could
> be pulled out of 
> the gravel in case of unplanting, due to  roots wrapped
> over it. This 
> happened to me many times.
> 
> 
> Mariano
> 
> 
> 
> >From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
> >Reply-To: aquatic plants digest
> <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> >To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> >Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
> >Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2005 10:43:47 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >You have my curiousity sparked.
> >
> >So this is running AC at 60 volts? Why all the
> resistors?
> >To reduce the voltage across the across the substart
> cable
> >termina, I suppose. Why not let the substrate cable be
> the
> >only significant resistance. Those external resistors
> are
> >converting electrical energy to heat and then dumping it
> >outside the tank. Is the substrate cable copper or
> >nichromium?
> >
> >What is the voltage across the substrate cable termina?
> >
> >What kind of jacket is on the wire? Kapton? Teflon?
> Vinyl?
> >How did you seal the connections between the power lead
> and
> >the substrate cable?
> >
> >sh
> >
> >
> >
> >--- "Mariano F. Bonfante" <mariano_bonfante at hotmail_com>
> >wrote:
> >
> > > Local outlets has 220V 50Hz, so I am using a 60Vca
> > > (typical en CATV
> > > industry), galvanic insulation transformer for
> feeding
> > > the resistors. There
> > > is also a dimmer circuit, to allow two phases: day
> and
> > > night. Daytime
> > > permits the substrate to be 1ºC above the water, nigh
> > > phase just a bias
> > > voltage.
> > >
> > > Resistors are outside the tank, with the following
> > > configuration: a granite
> > > plate over the tank stand, a Styrofoam plate (1/2
> inch),
> > > the resistors, an
> > > aluminum plate (1 mm), and above the tank. Resistors
> are
> > > solid rod type
> > > (industrial standard), arranged in zigzag. 
> Everything is
> > > grounded for
> > > safety issues.
> > >
> > > This system has been working for 2 years, it is very
> easy
> > > to check if it is
> > > working properly.
> > >
> > > Cables buried into the substrate trend to fail in the
> > > long term at least in
> > > my experience. Moisture finds it way to get inside
> the
> > > jacket, and corrosion
> > > did the rest. Other side effect was that long roots
> wrap
> > > around the cables,
> > > therefore they were pulled out the substrate when a
> plant
> > > was removed
> > >
> > > I spent some time with these systems, but it is fun
> and I
> > > like it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Mariano
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
> > > >Reply-To: aquatic plants digest
> > > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > >To: aquatic plants digest
> <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
> > > >Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 10:10:55 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Sure thing. I spent a tidy some for parts for CO2
> mixers
> > > >(a.k.a. reactors). Didn't have any use for them all.
> > > Just
> > > >playing around with parts.
> > > >
> > > >Is the heater AC or DC?
> > > >
> > > >sh
> > > >
> > > >--- "Mariano F. Bonfante"
> <mariano_bonfante at hotmail_com>
> > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > For sure, but pls consider that I have never
> bought a
> > > > > commercial heating
> > > > > system. I have made my own prototypes with
> standard
> > > > > electrical stuff. Don?t
> > > > > get me wrong, is a side of the hobby for me.
> > > > >
> > > > > MFB
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
> > > > > >Reply-To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > > >To: aquatic plants digest
> > > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 07:30:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Worth noting! That sound off in the distance
> could
> > > be
> > > > > >someone shouting, "Told ya so."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Occassionally poking the substrate is a much
> less
> > > > > expensive
> > > > > >way to accomplish the same result.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Scott H.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >--- "Mariano F. Bonfante"
> > > <mariano_bonfante at hotmail_com>
> > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have been using different types of
> substrate
> > > > > heaters
> > > > > > > since a long time,
> > > > > > > when I first read about them. Although this
> > > subject
> > > > > > > became controversial
> > > > > > > years after, I have experienced when the
> system
> > > is
> > > > > > > working properly, that
> > > > > > > chances of getting anaerobic spots is rather
> > > scarce.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mariano
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: Stuart Halliday
> > > <stuart at stuarthalliday_com>
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: stuart at stuarthalliday_com,
> > > aquatic
> > > > > > > plants digest
> > > > > > > ><aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > > > > >To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
> > > > > > > >Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 10:19:10 +0100
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Mark Gilmore wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Stuart - thanks for the tips of my
> hydrogen
> > > > > sulfide
> > > > > > > disaster.  The trick
> > > > > > > > > now will be catching fish in the densely
> > > planted
> > > > > tank
> > > > > > > before I start
> > > > > > > > > stirring up the substrate.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Good point.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >How about this idea. Put in an aerator on
> high
> > > for
> > > > > an
> > > > > > > hour or two so
> > > > > > > >you've got lots of oxygen in the water and
> then
> > > poke
> > > > > say
> > > > > > > 10% of the
> > > > > > > >substrate. Then leave it for an hour before
> > > poking
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > next area.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >This way any nasty gases can't dissolve into
> the
> > > > > water
> > > > > > > as it's already
> > > > > > > >saturated with oxygen?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >--
> > > > > > > >Stuart Halliday
> > > > > > >
> >_______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > > > >Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > > > >
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > >Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > >Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > >
> > >
> >http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > >Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > >
> >http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> > >
> >
> >
> >* * * * * * * * * * *
> >The September 15 deadline for entries to
> >the AGA Inernational Aquascaping Contest is fast
> approaching.
> >
> >Don't forget to indicate if you want your AGA entry to
> also be an ADA (Aqua 
> >Design Amano) Layout Contest entry!
> >
> >All the info is here:
> >http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.org
> >
> >Share the fun and show your work!
> >_______________________________________________
> >Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> >Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> >http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants
> 
> 
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Follow-Ups:
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  - From: Mariano F. Bonfante

References:
- Re: [APD] hydrogen sulfide - thanks
  - From: Mariano F. Bonfante

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