[APD] RE: Rift lake refugium

[jvision at telus_net]

I don't know why I didn't think of using emergent plants - I've done this 
before and it worked wonderfully!  I've got a few house plants that I've 
potted, but were all started in different fish tanks over the years - I'll 
probably use cuttings from these.

As far as planting the tank with Val. sp. (I have spiral and tiger on hand), 
is there a way to keep the fish from digging them up before they become fully 
rooted?  If not, how long does it take for Vals to become well rooted?  Is 
there a way to get them to root & spread faster - a certain nutrient 
combination?  I kind of like the idea of having a wall of Val. along the back, 
and maybe using some Anubias & Java fern - maybe even some Bolbitus - among 
the rock/shell work.

As far as substrate is concerned, I like the idea of using limestone sand, but 
I think I'd prefer something darker mixed in - Onyx Sand, perhaps?  Maybe I'll 
go strate Onyx if I go planted (will swords fare well with the fish?).

Thanks, Tom & Richard for the advice, so far!

Jason


> Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 10:16:59 -0700
> From: "Thomas Barr" <tcbiii at earthlink_net>
> Subject: [APD] RE: Rift lake refugium
> To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> 
> > Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 10:41:54 -0700
> > From: jvision at telus_net
> > Subject: [APD] Re: Planted Tank as Rift Lake Refugium 
> > To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> >
> > I'm planning on buffering the Rift Lake tank with CaCO3 - gonna have a
> lot of 
> > oyster/clam shells in there - so, will I need to add CO2 to the refugium?
> I 
> > was thinking that if the C was too limited, it'd probably be better to go
> with 
> > the SeaChem product instead.
> > We've got a long weekend coming up in Canada, so I'm probably going to
> set most 
> > of it up then... tho, I want to rework my 35 gal planted tank, too...  
> >
> > So much to do, so little time!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> 
> Err why use submersed plants when good old emergent plants work better,
> need less light and are easier to prune?
> Simply use hydroponics, place the plants in the sump in Hydroponics media,
> (rock wool/clay balls are better though), use ABS or PVC 3" tubes and add a
> test cap to the bottom and drill a few small holes in the bottom. Splice
> off some of the inflow or use a small powerhead to trickle the sump water
> over the media for several of these 3" tubes (pots) and the water flows
> over the roots and the filtered water flows out the bottom of the tubes and
> back into the sump.
> 
> You can make the Tubes 6" 12" 18" etc, whatever range of levels you might
> have in your sump.
> 
> A simple 18" to 24" 15-20 w under the counter FL light will grow most
> plants over a 2-3 ft area.
> Peace lilies work super. Cut like grass(cut 1/2 to 1/3 of the pots at a
> time). 
> 
> Dry weight of emergent plants has far greater density than submersed(more
> removal of waste and export with less room required), these plants also
> have low light requirements(less light required), no impact on CO2 (might
> add a little even), much easier to prune and maintain over time and less
> sensitive to nutrient variations than submersed plants.
> 
> It will cost less in terms of electrical cost, bulb replacement, initial
> cost set up, plant cost, nutrient dosing, no Excel or CO2 needed.
> 
> As far as planted tangy tanks, I've done a few. They looked quite nice. I
> can send you a picture of a 240 gal with a bed of vals (which are present
> in the lake) growing in the foreground in pure aragonite(CaCO3), no
> fertilizers added, no pruning done(Tropheus do this), excellent fish
> health. Most of the lake isn't full of plants, but there are areas where
> they do grow well.
> 
> Adding CO2 will lower the pH of a Rift tank.
> It does not however change the salt content, the K+, SO4, Ca, Mg, and these
> are plant nutrients...........
> It is the salt content that matters when addressing fish health.
> Adding CO2 is not the same as lowering or adding salt. 
> 
> We routinely do large frequent water changes on CO2 enriched tanks, often
> 50% or more and the pH differences are often one full pH unit.
> 
> No death, no ill effects, no problems.
> If you added enough baking soda tor rapidly change the pH one full unit,
> you'd have some fish death very likely.
> 
> So is it the pH/ super saturated gas? Or is it the salt content?
> I've kept them in CO2 enriched tanks, Xeno's, Cypri's especially and other
> feather fins.
> 
> The KH was high, the GH was high, and so was the CO2.
> This is the case in the springs in Florida, if you want to see lots of
> limestone white sands, and rocks and a clear hardwater river full of
> plants, this is the place.
> 
> We add CO2 not to control pH, nor does traditional pH fish environmental
> level apply when we use CO2 gas, we add CO2 gas to fertilize the plants.
> The fish are much more concerned about the ratio of O2 to CO2. The 2 gases
> compete in plant's Carbon fixing site as well as the fish's gills.
> 
> But the high O2 levels added by the plant's waste allows for high levels to
> occur with out ill effects on the fish.
> Plants are fairly resistant to high(moderately) O2 levels(more than the
> fish are) and seldom get to the point where it could cause issues in
> tropical shallow tanks. 
> 
> Even without the high O2 from plants, you can still add CO2 as long as the
> tank is not overly stocked(anything that drains/removes O2).
> 
> You do not need to add CO2 at night for plants, so stop adding it then, the
> pH will slowly climb back up as the excess CO2 degasses.
> 
> This also is an example of how the pH variation due to CO2 has no health
> related problems for fish.
> pH changes occur in nature where plants exist over much larger variation
> than one pH unit(a typical range for CO2 target dosing vs ambient pH).
> Often 2, even up to 4 pH units. These lakes do not experience that much
> change, but they are fairly tough fish and these same principles apply both
> in theory and practice.
> 
> Either way, you can grow plants with or without CO2/Excel/emergenet or
> submersed.
> You have options.  
> 
> Regards, 
> Tom Barr
> 
> 3rd annual Plant Fest July 8-14th 2005!
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