Re: [APD] RE: K+

["S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>]

Okay, I didn't really notice when things shifted to the
notion of blocking instead of adaptive substitution. Things
went off track a bit, at least in my brain. I never
suspected nor meant to suggest any blocking action. And
when Tom rebuked the idea of blocking, I sloppily thoght he
was referring to the other idea. What I recall of Tom's
posts, he has not argued for Ca blocking. I think that
might have been Ghazanfar's hypothesis for why high K is
bad for plants, I'm not sure. 

What I thought, and what I thought Tom had posted
previously was, for lack of a better term, adaptive
substituion. I thought that plants, adaptable as they are,
were able to make up for some shortages in Ca by taking on
more K than otherwise, provided the additional K is
available. That's not blocking; that's substitution for
something lacking, which is very different. If that occurs,
the Ca shortage in the tank might not show up in the plants
until the gardener drops back on the K. I said that part --
that's the only part I was throwing into the ion-o-rama,

Monkey blocking, now that's a whole other topic ;-)

Scott H.
--- Thomas Barr <tcbiii at earthlink_net> wrote:

> I said about the notion of K+ blocking Ca++:
> 
> > > .....And then monkeys flew out of my butt.........
> 
> Scott said:
> 
> > Naw, someone would have noticed that.
> > But that point came from your past posts, although I
> > probably recast it badly. But then, you've got to
> admit,
> > sometimes it's hard to keep up with you ;-)
> 
> And the monkeys.
> 
> I just have never seen any evidence in any tank of this
> occuring. I've
> tried to induce it at the ranges suggested and 2x that
> and some have gone
> 4-6x this amount and no results. I've added lots of K+
> for 9 years now.
> 100's of species of plants, more tanks than I can count. 
> 
> Let me put it another way:
> If I have 2ppm of PO4 and no algae, does PO4 cause algae?
> 
> If I have 50ppm of K+ and no stunting on the same species
> of plants, does
> K+ block Ca++?
> 
> While we may not quite know what the conditions are in a
> tank, we do and
> can test for what it is _not_.
> After and few steps like that, we begin to narrow down
> what it is.
> Then focus on that potential.
> 
> You kill myths along this path to enlightenment also...
> not to mention a
> fleet PO4 enema is great after a bad monkey infestation. 
> I'm much more direct and confident about this perhaps
> than you or many
> becasue I have done this test, nothing against what you
> said, I'm much more
> willing to attack the issue head on. PO4 and grief I got
> from that was the
> same. People still say it causes algae. Forgive them oh
> Plant God.  They do
> not yet knowth the path through the fields of brown
> necrotic death, the bog
> of enternal woe and the Eight Levels of the vilest algal
> plagues to
> .......the garden of Eden.  
> 
> Regards, 
> Tom Barr
> 
> 
> 
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=====
--- Christel Kassellman is returning to America! ---
The Northeast Council of Aquarium Societies will feature Christel, author of _Aquarium Plants_, among its speakers at its 30th Annual Convention. It's the longest running consecutive general tropical fish convention in the country and one of the most fun to attend. 

March 18-20, 2005
Marriott Hotel, Farmington, CT
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