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[APD] Re: TheBarr report. com and Plant Fest 2K5




Great job Tom,


it will be so usefull for the ones that unlike us didn't have the opportunity of reading your posts during all these years.
If i can help someway...


Regards
Francesco Cremonini

From: "Thomas Barr" <tcbiii at earthlink_net>
Subject: [APD] TheBarr report. com and Plant Fest 2K5
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com

Greg Watson and I have decided to do something worthwhile for the hobby and
something that will eventually end up as the long awaited book. Each month,
we will produce an on line interactive chapter that will become a book on
aquatic macrophytes.


I will select some old post, sotries from past postings and various
articles I've written over the years.
I will discuss "Barr's Laboratory" also. This will be a simple approach to
testing myths and sertting up test that will show reasonable results for
the average hobbyist and future ideas and directions.

I've never had a web site except the various forums and list I write to so
this is a long time coming.
You all can wait a year, or read the chapters as they come out.

I will detail out a number of set ups with photo's and little projects.
There will be graphs.
There will be references to follow up things on.

When I post, it's difficult to supply all of these elements in each post.

But the end result will be something much more cohesive and able to send
off to those who are interested in aquatic weeds.
Eventually, we will try to find a universal translator as these are
becoming better and better so folks in Japan, China, Russia, Italy and
across the globe can read and discuss aquatic plants. That will be later.
Anyone on the web can join.

Greg is an excellent asset to the hobby, extremely well versed in
business/web, sells PMDD supplies to hobbyist for dirt to help folks out,
not to make $.
Those that know me also realize I'm not in this for the $ as well and with
this is mind, this should turn into a good project with a good goal from
the onset.

That kind of direction is good for everyone.

Greg and I are still working through this, but stay tuned for "The Barr
Report".

Plant fest 2K5 will be happening this summer also. I plan to get Karen
Randall and perhaps Amano in the water for gator bait this year and if you
ever wanted a large amount of driftwood, petrified wood or weeds, this is
the place. I will also try to do the Marine reef, mangrove macro algae
collecting trip in the Keys the following 3 days this time. It will be more
a Macro algae identification class and both trips are very fun even if you
do not care nor own a plant tank or a marine tank.
I've had people come that were like that and they had a good old time. I'm
hoping for July this year. It will be limited to about 15 people. We will
visit a plant wholesaler perhaps this year(FAN or Suwannee labs) but I
think folks are packing in as much as they can in the 3 day event as
humanly possible but I'm considering it.
The Marine version will wear you out also but there is still plenty of time
to relax on a beach, stop in Key West for a night of Tom Foolery and some
good seafood places. Dorm style Marine lab lodging runs about 22$ a night
for the 3 days.


More info later

Regards,

Tom Barr
















------------------------------


Message: 3
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:23:50 -0800
From: "Steve Pushak" <teban at powersonic_bc.ca>
Subject: [APD] remove the algae or endless pruning
To: <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>

Thomas wrote:
My goal is to grow planted tanks, no worry about algae

This is fine. The Barr approach works well with fast growing plants. Its just too high maintenance removing the tons of algae that grow and replanting the tops of the masses of Hygrophila polysperma. There are many of us who are well beyond the stage of simply growing tanks full of green stuff and want to work with Anubias, Crypts, Spathiphyllum and a host of other slow growing plants. Maybe we don't all want to spend every Saturday afternoon pinching and pruning.

[snip]
I suppose, but good growth takes care of algae, if you want
so so, sub par growth, have at it.

This annoys me. Plenty of us have excellent growth, as much as we could ever desire and NO algae whatsoever. No spores, nothing. We can use bleach or H2O2 to sterilize the plants. We can use clay balls to provide nitrogen and phosphorus to the roots of the plants. Sure some N & P gets out into the water but as Tom points out, this is no big deal. Its just better to have more of it concentrated in the substrate.

This is simply a matter of tearing down those tanks that are infected or
as Richard suggests, killing off the algae using H2O2. I think you might
need to remove the plants to do a thorough job but there should be no
problem returning the cleaned plants to the tank afterward and no need
to remove the substrate. For tough plants like Anubias, this seems like
an ideal treatment, right in the tank! I applaud Richard for his
efforts.

I'm not saying its easy to keep a tank free of algae. I've had a well
meaning friend bring a bag of plants over and ruin weeks of work by
casually dumping her plants into one of my clean tanks. I've had
Oedogonium mysteriously appear in two of my 5 year old tanks; well I
just wasn't careful enough about quarantining fish. It took years for
the Oedogonium population to get to critical mass; a little too much
ammonia one week and bingo, it gets a start. I've had lots of problems
with Spirogyra spreading on nets, fish and droplets. That's one of the
worst. I don't say its easy to go the bleach route but when you achieve
it the results are awesome.

How many tanks win "algae free" contest? :-)

Not Tom's. A friend of mine got samples of plants from Tom and there was definitely Oedogonium on his plants. His strategy works best with fast growing plants. I have pointed this out numerous times.

Not any, but that might be your goal, stunted plants without algae.

Stunted plants?? I think not. This is misleading. Tsk-tsk-tsk!


There is absolutely nothing wrong with adding phosphate and nitrate to
your tank; I recommend that you do it regularly ..... using CLAY
FERTILIZER BALLS!! You WILL get very good growth, just like Tom B. AND
you can target the plants that need it.

Start clean; stay as clean as you can. If you do get algae (it can
happen easily) then you have two choices. Live with it like Tom and
forego the slow growing plants for a jungle of H poly or clear it out
and start over. If, heaven forbid, you should find yourself with a tank
filled with Oedogonium or Spirogyra, don't make the mistake of believing
that you can cure it by pouring in nutrients. You will have to remove
all the plants with large colonies on them and replant the tops of the
fast growers. Be prepared to do this every week. Yes, this may be great
fun for newbies but its certainly not an optimal strategy for those of
us who have a life outside of aquariums.

Steve P



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:07:30 +0200
From: "CameronM" <cameronm at rse_co.za>
Subject: [APD] Heads up
To: <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>

For some of you folks who are interested in searching for more in-depth technical information, please see text below posted through another plant list:

"Yesterday, I was made aware of a new search engine that searches the
literature and not commercial websites.  It is by Google, and is the beta
version of Google Scholar.

I typed in: juvenility + plant, and got a list of published papers on this
subject and no commercial websites.

It tells you how many times that paper has been cited in
the literature that Google Scholar searches, and if you click on that
number, references for all of these manuscripts come up.

Therefore, it looks like you can cite a specific reference and learn what
papers have cited it, which is a powerful searching tool.

The url is: http://scholar.google.com/

I hope that you find this helpful."

Kind Regards
Cameron James


------------------------------


Message: 5
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:30:24 -0000
From: "Andrew McLeod" <thefish at theabyssalplain_freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [APD] remove the algae or endless pruning
To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 00:23:50 -0800, Steve Pushak <teban at powersonic_bc.ca>
wrote:

Thomas wrote:
My goal is to grow planted tanks, no worry about algae

This is fine. The Barr approach works well with fast growing plants. Its just too high maintenance removing the tons of algae that grow and replanting the tops of the masses of Hygrophila polysperma. There are many of us who are well beyond the stage of simply growing tanks full of green stuff and want to work with Anubias, Crypts, Spathiphyllum and a host of other slow growing plants. Maybe we don't all want to spend every Saturday afternoon pinching and pruning.

You have not tried adding phosphate. You have not even tried the particular 'Tom Barr' method that everybody thinks of when they think Tom Barr method (i.e. added CO2, higher light). Your posts are usually about dealing with particular species of algae that cause you problems by targetting it specifically. Tom Barr's posts are about not having to worry about algae at all. Describe you tanks, follow the instructions given and Tom Barr will cure all your algae ills... (ok so that is a little cheesy) Carry on doing things the way you are doing and you may get algae to grow!

Start clean; stay as clean as you can. If you do get algae (it can
happen easily) then you have two choices. Live with it like Tom and
forego the slow growing plants for a jungle of H poly or clear it out
and start over. If, heaven forbid, you should find yourself with a tank
filled with Oedogonium or Spirogyra, don't make the mistake of believing
that you can cure it by pouring in nutrients. You will have to remove
all the plants with large colonies on them and replant the tops of the
fast growers. Be prepared to do this every week. Yes, this may be great
fun for newbies but its certainly not an optimal strategy for those of
us who have a life outside of aquariums.

One of the Tom Barr methods (non-CO2) involves nothing more than topping up for evaporation and making the occasional water change at several month intervals... I would say that Tom Barr can grow plants slowly as well as quickly.

--
Andrew McLeod
thefish at theabyssalplain_freeserve.co.uk

This email was scanned carefully before transmission to remove any
content, information or relevance.


------------------------------


Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 11:02:11 -0500 (EST)
From: "Richard J. Sexton" <richard at aquaria_net>
Subject: Re: [APD] remove the algae or endless pruning
To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>

Yeah. To some of us a fast growing plant is Crypt. balansae :-)



--

/"\                         / http://lists.aquaria.net
\ /  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN / Killies, Crypts, Aponogetons
 X   AGAINST HTML MAIL    / http://killifish.vrx.net
/ \  AND POSTINGS        / http://www.vrx.net



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 10:25:46 -0600
From: "Bob Crosby" <rtcrosby at charter_net>
Subject: RE: [APD] TheBarr report. com and Plant Fest 2K5
To: <tcbiii at earthlink_net>, "'aquatic plants digest'"
<aquatic-plants at actwin_com>

Tom,

That is an extremely ambitious and selfless undertaking for both of you.
I for one both eagerly anticipate and applaud your efforts.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: aquatic-plants-bounces+rtcrosby=charter_net at actwin.com
[mailto:aquatic-plants-bounces+rtcrosby=charter_net at actwin.com] On
Behalf Of Thomas Barr
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 1:21 AM
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
Subject: [APD] TheBarr report. com and Plant Fest 2K5


Greg Watson and I have decided to do something worthwhile for the hobby and something that will eventually end up as the long awaited book. Each month, we will produce an on line interactive chapter that will become a book on aquatic macrophytes.

I will select some old post, sotries from past postings and various
articles I've written over the years. I will discuss "Barr's Laboratory"
also. This will be a simple approach to testing myths and sertting up
test that will show reasonable results for the average hobbyist and
future ideas and directions.

I've never had a web site except the various forums and list I write to
so this is a long time coming.
You all can wait a year, or read the chapters as they come out.

I will detail out a number of set ups with photo's and little projects.
There will be graphs. There will be references to follow up things on.

When I post, it's difficult to supply all of these elements in each
post.

But the end result will be something much more cohesive and able to send
off to those who are interested in aquatic weeds. Eventually, we will
try to find a universal translator as these are becoming better and
better so folks in Japan, China, Russia, Italy and across the globe can
read and discuss aquatic plants. That will be later. Anyone on the web
can join.

Greg is an excellent asset to the hobby, extremely well versed in
business/web, sells PMDD supplies to hobbyist for dirt to help folks
out, not to make $. Those that know me also realize I'm not in this for
the $ as well and with this is mind, this should turn into a good
project with a good goal from the onset.

That kind of direction is good for everyone.

Greg and I are still working through this, but stay tuned for "The Barr
Report".

Plant fest 2K5 will be happening this summer also. I plan to get Karen
Randall and perhaps Amano in the water for gator bait this year and if
you ever wanted a large amount of driftwood, petrified wood or weeds,
this is the place. I will also try to do the Marine reef, mangrove macro
algae collecting trip in the Keys the following 3 days this time. It
will be more a Macro algae identification class and both trips are very
fun even if you do not care nor own a plant tank or a marine tank. I've
had people come that were like that and they had a good old time. I'm
hoping for July this year. It will be limited to about 15 people. We
will visit a plant wholesaler perhaps this year(FAN or Suwannee labs)
but I think folks are packing in as much as they can in the 3 day event
as humanly possible but I'm considering it. The Marine version will wear
you out also but there is still plenty of time to relax on a beach, stop
in Key West for a night of Tom Foolery and some good seafood places.
Dorm style Marine lab lodging runs about 22$ a night for the 3 days.

More info later

Regards,

Tom Barr














_______________________________________________ Aquatic-Plants mailing list Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 16:34:35 -0000
From: "Andrew McLeod" <thefish at theabyssalplain_freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [APD] TheBarr report. com and Plant Fest 2K5
To: tcbiii at earthlink_net, "aquatic plants digest"
<aquatic-plants at actwin_com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:20:46 -0800, Thomas Barr <tcbiii at earthlink_net>
wrote:

Greg Watson and I have decided to do something worthwhile for the hobby
and
something that will eventually end up as the long awaited book. Each
month,
we will produce an on line interactive chapter that will become a book on
aquatic macrophytes
...
(cut)
...
More info later

Regards,

Tom Barr

That is great news, for the list and the hobby in general.


--
Andrew McLeod
thefish at theabyssalplain_freeserve.co.uk

This email was scanned carefully before transmission to remove any
content, information or relevance.


------------------------------


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End of Aquatic-Plants Digest, Vol 15, Issue 39 **********************************************



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