[APD] Death to algae or grow the plants?

["Thomas Barr" <tcbiii at earthlink_net>]

I wrote:
> > The entire algae killing notion is seriously flawed,
> > if you grow the plants well, then there's no algae issues.

> This is the premise that you would like us all to subscribe to. :-)

And you disagree with that premise?
Err let's take a step back and look at the goal here:

A nice planted tank with healthy growth.
Hummm k.

Perhaps some like the notion of using herbicides, killing algae etc as well?
Or is that because they cannot grow the plants properly yet?
An unhappy plants will get algae, a healthy one will not.

Let me see here, I have no trouble with _any_ species of algae.
Seems to work with folks all over the globe, far fewer folks now have
algae, even a beginner can produce a nice healthy tank worthy of a contest
win. Happened last year(see AGA). Karen, Amano, Claus, myself and
researchers(Hoyer, Haller et al) seem to agree that good plant growth means
poor algae growth consistently.
So it's not just myself here, most folks in the know share their knowledge
generously.
Perhaps we all are conspiring and are in cahoots together?

Can you show similar examples of your algae free methods with excellent
results with all species of algae?
Does sterile procedure somehow grow plants better?
Is it a plant nutrient?

> The fact is that in real life aquarists have to deal with algae from
> time to time. You can remove it with a toothbrush, hide it in the dark
> until it dies, poison it or blow it up with dynamite.

I'm real, I have aquariums, I live. So does the above list.
We all slack off, fix the tank and in a week or two things are fine.
3-4 weeks and you cannot tell there was any algae.
I prune, preen, trim dead leaves off, fluff, clean filters, lightly vacuum
out any mulm etc.
But that's basic maintenance and that's just about all I've ever needed.
Sterile methods don't do that type of work.
Algicides don't either.

I get algae for a reason, not magic, not years of time passing, not because
my name is Tomoss, not because of excess nutrients(except NH4).
  
If I keep up on the nutrients and basic mainteance, I have no issues with
algae.
I let the tank sour, I whip it back into shape, there is no secret about
how I or anyone else does this.
Takes some work but makes the tank and plants look much better. 
I'm not worried about infection, no need.

> It may take several years for Oedogonium to become established to the
> point that it becomes a serious problem.

This one is quite easy to deal with.
It's been close to a decade since I have "worried" about this one.

 If you have an aquarium with
> well established colonies of Oedogonium and you "feed" it with a good
> supply of nutrients, it will grow irrespective of how fast the
> Hygrophila polysperma is filling the tank. 

Well established colonies need "cultivated".
They grow for a reason.
So do plants.
They just don't start growing for the hell of it.
I've added plants with this and many other algae species.
Yet my tanks are algae free.
Wonder why?
 
You have to remove the old
> leaves that are covered with fur. If the tank is predominantly slow
> growing plants such as Echinodorus, Crypts or Anubias you're not going
> to be able to grow new leaves on those plants fast enough to keep ahead
> of the spread of Oedogonium when you have huge colonies of it in the
> tank.

Well I guess I have a magic wand then............
There are quite a few folks doing this and at a very large scale as well.
There's no secret either.
See the AGA contest, very large tanks.
See Amano's tanks. 
I've told folks how and why already.
Even that scoffing George Booth knows this "trick". 

> If you start with a sterile tank and sterile conditions, you may never
> get an Oedogonium invasion. 

I don't, neither does Jeff/Mike, Amano etc.
I share the knowledge but if folks don't listen, that's not my fault.   
I've set up a number of tanks like you mention, no sterile conditions at
all.
Amano doesn't, neither do the Senski's.
Low light, high CO2, good fish load, moderate to rich dosing. 
Dosing can have a lot of wiggle room if you have high CO2, low light and a
decent fish load.
No secret there. 

If you do get it, it may take years before
> it becomes a problem. I think this is where the confusion is coming in.
> Start clean. Your problems will definitely be fewer even if you can't
> maintain 100% quarantine.

Well these tanks have been set up for years, we simply don't have time nor
are willing to invest so much time in sterile procedures.
That is a lot of work, which I don't mind but as far as I know, it still
does not grow plants any better.
A good preening, pruning, filter cleaning, fluffing and then a large water
changes does that... and no sterile procedure is going to save you from
algae over time.

> Yes, by all means: grow your plants well! Feed the roots.

> Steve

Sure, like Dupla and others suggest. Why don't I have algae?
If that notion is correct, why don't I have algae?
Why don't most folks with nice healthy tanks?

Please tank a look at this years AGA extra large tanks. These have swords,
Crypts, Anubias etc and have been up for several years. No algae. 
See Amano's 1.5x1.5x4 meter tank. No algae.
I've had numerous tanks like these as well.

Where's my algae?
You say it causes algae but I'm looking and I ain't got it. 
SeaChem and Kent now make PO4 dosing products for the water column.   
If what you say is true, where is my algae?
 Even years later. Folks can come over and add these algae to my tanks
even. They won't grow.
Infected plants are added, I preen off a fair amount, but there is still
plenty of algae there, algae does not not grow in my tanks even without the
sterile procedure.

You would have us subscribe to this sterile procedure as the method of
prevention, substrate methods(which did not work in algae prevention) 
rather than focusing on plant growth and health? 

What was the original goal?
Having a healthy PLANT tank. So grow the plants.
This is a deceptively simple concept. 

regards, 
Tom Barr


 



_______________________________________________
Aquatic-Plants mailing list
Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/aquatic-plants