Re: [APD] RE: Give Up

["S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>]

CO2 builds in bag over time whether open or not, pH may
decline accordingly. Ammonia/ammonium builds over time in
the bag. When you open the bag, the CO2 can escape, the pH
accordingly rise and the ratio of ammonia to ammonium
increase. 

If the fish have been in the bag for any considerable
length of time, and they don't appear very stressed, I
float the bag (but not right under the light bulbs) and
tank water, maybe 10-20% every 5 or 10 minutes. But I don't
keep them in the bag for more than about 1/2 hour. If they
appear stressed, I might add some conditoner to some tank
water and then mix that in and add tank water more quickly,
figuring the ammonia is worse than any other stresses they
are undergoing. 

But then, I've heard stories where people virtually throw
their new fish right into a tank and it lives 20 years and
stories where they drip a drop per hour for 3 weeks into
the fish bag and they've never had cardinal die on them. 

The smaller the bag in relation to the amount of, size of
fish in it and how long they've been in the bag surely
makes the bag less and less hospital.

I've measured water temps "in the bag" and found that, when
floated, it does not change as rapidly as I otherwise would
have guessed. I would have guessed it equalised with the
tank water temp in just a minute or two. But I found that
it can take 10 or 15 minutes for the water temp to reach
tank water temp when the bag is floated. Mixing in tank
water speeds that up.

I'll guess that a balance between the types of stresses is
what's most important and which stresses are more serious
depends on a variety of factors.

And it might depend on the kind of fish two.

Scott H.
--- Rachel Sandage <rachelsor at hotmail_com> wrote:

> I was told, and I can't remember the source, that the
> water in the bag stays at a pretty stable pH as long as
> the bag isn't open, but once the bag is opened the air
> can mix with the water & cause pH crash. Or maybe I was
> told that the ammonia in the bag would mostly stay
> harmless until the bag was opened. I can't remember
> which. But since then I have always floated the bags,
> unopened, for about 15 minutes and then transferred the
> fish. It is an hour from the fish store to my house, and
> I have not lost fish from transfer.
> 
> I also wanted to tell about 2 tanks in my house. One has
> CO2 injection and lots of water-parameter fiddling. It
> ends up at about pH 6.6, KH=GH=5. The other has pH 7.6,
> KH=GH=1, which is standard tap water (and pretty much
> standard LFS water params). I frequently move fish
> between these two tanks with no acclimating time at all -
> just grab the fish in my hand (or net) and run between
> the tanks. The two tanks are more or less the same
> temperature. I have moved eggs, fry, and adult fish this
> way, with no problems.
> 
> Just another data point.
> 
> rs
> (carefully deleting the original message)
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=====
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