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Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?

To: aquatic plants digest <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 06:59:04 -0700 (PDT)
In-reply-to: <000801c4845a$ed4aec90$eeeea8c0@GRUPO>
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Ironically perhaps, Tropica Master Grow and, I think, most
traces mixes (as do many fertilizers in general that
contained iron as a plant nutirent) use chelated iron, so
one or more chelators are already present with the trace
mix.

SeaChem's Flourish doesn't use the EDTA or or other similar
chelator, choosing an iron gluconate compound instead.

sh

 
--- António_Vitor <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt> wrote:

> thanks for the reply !
> :)
> 
> Yes, that was the question...
> I don't know either, but I believe EDTA is the cheappiest
> of them all..
> ;)
> it's economics, they must use the cheaper one...
> 
> Regards!
> António Vitor
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "S. Hieber" <shieber at yahoo_com>
> To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 1:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> 
> 
> > I belive your question was contained in this:
> >
> > "My guess is that they use EDTA (the same stuff present
> on
> > fertilizers), it's
> > cheap, even present on hair conditioneres and shampoos.
> >
> > Someone know what are those afinities (EDTA) with
> common
> > metals?"
> >
> > I'm not a chemist and I don't know that answer. I
> suspect
> > that the common chelators do grab at least some of them
> but
> > then I don't know that all the conditoners use those
> common
> > chelators.
> >
> > So that's not much help and why I didn't respond
> previously
> > to that question except to point to Dr. Morin's posts.
> > There's no need to use more conditioner than what's
> > required to knock out the chlorine or chloramines. I
> > believe the conditioners will atach trace elements if
> they
> > don't have any of the heavy stuff to grab. But, as I
> > understand from what Dr. Morin has posted, the effect
> is
> > small -- the asumption being that the heavy metals are
> in
> > extrememly low concentrations -- much lower than any
> trace
> > mix adds -- so enough treat heavy metals is not enough
> to
> > seriously deplete nutrient traces. I tend to dose a bit
> > heavy on traces anyway and don't worry about it.
> >
> > That's not an answer either, but the best I can give
> you.
> >
> > I doubt anyone is ever ignored on APD -- too many of us
> > "BIG Mouths" ;-)
> >
> > Sometimes, a poster simply "stumps the band" or hits
> the
> > list with, say , a chemistry question, at a time when
> the
> > chemists are busy.
> >
> > Scott H.
> > --- António_Vitor <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt> wrote:
> >
> > > If I am wrong...at least say that!
> > > hoo well...
> > > :(
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "António Vitor" <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt>
> > > To: "aquatic plants digest"
> <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:58 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > >
> > >
> > > > I posted 2 times, made a question...
> > > > and no answers !
> > > >
> > > > that is annoying...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > From: "António Vitor" <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt>
> > > > To: "aquatic plants digest"
> <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:53 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Is only my impression, or my posts are being
> > > neglected???
> > > > >
> > > > > António Vitor
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > > > From: "Laith Arif" <laith at swissonline_ch>
> > > > > To: "'aquatic plants digest'"
> > > <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:35 AM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > So I guess there isn't really an issue here. 
> The
> > > conditioner is not
> > > > going
> > > > > > to have an impact on the ferts/nutrients/traces
> for
> > > the plants.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for clearing that up!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Laith
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: S. Hieber [mailto:shieber at yahoo_com]
> > > > > > Sent: 17 August 2004 00:42
> > > > > > To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I believe Dr. Morin's basic point was that
> Prime
> > > "grabs"
> > > > > > the heavy metals before iron and such.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Scott H.
> > > > > > --- Laith Arif <laith at swissonline_ch> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Ok, thanks for the info and the links.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So Greg Morin is correct when he says "This
> > > should not be
> > > > > > > an issue unless
> > > > > > > you are really wanting to keep high levels of
> > > lead,
> > > > > > > mercury and cadmium ;-)
> > > > > > > (all toxic heavy metals)."?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It's mainly these toxic heavy metals that are
> > > > > > > removed/neutralized?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The reason I asked in the first place was
> just
> > > wondering
> > > > > > > whether at every
> > > > > > > water change and the addition of the
> conditioner,
> > > I was
> > > > > > > basically starting
> > > > > > > out with water "bare" of all metals and
> needed to
> > > take
> > > > > > > this into account
> > > > > > > when dosing ferts and traces.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the input.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Laith
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: S. Hieber [mailto:shieber at yahoo_com]
> > > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2004 11:36
> > > > > > > To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > None of hte elements in the aquariumare, say,
> > > converted
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > energy -- if they are there before the
> > > conditioner is
> > > > > > > added, they are there afterwards. It's a
> matter
> > > of the
> > > > > > > chemical or ionic bonds and what compounds
> are in
> > > the
> > > > > > > tank.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Conditioners that "remove" chloramine break
> up
> > > the
> > > > > > > compound
> > > > > > > into constituents that can then remain
> separate
> > > or
> > > > > > > recombine with other elements to form new
> > > compounds.
> > > > > > > Something that breaks up chloramine could
> leave
> > > your tank
> > > > > > > with a sudden dose of ammonia.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Some conditioners bind the elements and bind
> some
> > > > > > > so-called
> > > > > > > heavy metals. The metal elements are not
> gone,
> > > but tied
> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > in a compound that is presumably less risky
> to
> > > fish or
> > > > > > > plants. Some conditioners, like SeaChem Prime
> > > break up
> > > > > > > chloramine and then "grab" the nitrogen in a
> new
> > > compound
> > > > > > > less harmful to fish but still available to
> > > plants as a
> > > > > > > nutrient.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is an order of "preference" for what
> metals
> > > a
> > > > > > > conditioner will grab.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are lots of posts in the archives. Here
> are
> > > a few:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200102/msg00171.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200302/msg00030.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> >
>
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200303/msg00029.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It matters what conditioner you use. If you
> have
> > > > > > > chloramines, you want something thatdoesn't
> leave
> > > you
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > a sudden dose of ammonia. As for trace
> metals, I
> > > don't
> > > > > > > think it's an issue. If there is nothing else
> to
> > > bind,
> > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > iron might be bound but the amount is small
> and a
> > > worthy
> > > > > > > trade-off for gaurding against chlorine,
> > > chloramine, and
> > > > > > > heavy metals. And the bound iron can still be
> > > gotten by
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > plants eventually.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good luck, good fun,
> > > > > > > Scott H.
> > > > > > > --- Laith Arif <laith at swissonline_ch> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm curious to know what exactly my water
> > > conditioner
> > > > > > > > (JBL Biotopol) means
> > > > > > > > by "removes heavy metals"... Does anyone
> know?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just wondering if besides removing chlorine
> and
> > > > > > > > chloramine it's also
> > > > > > > > removing useful plant nutrients (micro
> and/or
> > > macro).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > =====
> > > > > > > Want to get dirty but stay clean?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the
> Planted
> > > > > > > Aquarium_ will discuss soil
> > > > > > > supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004
> AGA
> > > > > > > Convention.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Convention Details/Registration at
> > > aquatic-gardeners.org
> > > > > > > & gwapa.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > > > >
> > >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > =====
> > > > > > Want to get dirty but stay clean?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the
> Planted
> > > Aquarium_ will
> > > discuss
> > > > > soil
> > > > > > supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004
> AGA
> > > Convention.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Convention Details/Registration at
> > > aquatic-gardeners.org & gwapa.org
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > > >
> > >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > >
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Want to get dirty but stay clean?
> >
> > Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the Planted
> Aquarium_ will discuss
> soil supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004 AGA
> Convention.
> >
> > Convention Details/Registration at
> aquatic-gardeners.org & gwapa.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> 


=====
Want to get dirty but stay clean? 

Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ will discuss soil supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004 AGA Convention.

Convention Details/Registration at aquatic-gardeners.org & gwapa.org
_______________________________________________
Aquatic-Plants mailing list
Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
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