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Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
I belive your question was contained in this:
"My guess is that they use EDTA (the same stuff present on
fertilizers), it's
cheap, even present on hair conditioneres and shampoos.
Someone know what are those afinities (EDTA) with common
metals?"
I'm not a chemist and I don't know that answer. I suspect
that the common chelators do grab at least some of them but
then I don't know that all the conditoners use those common
chelators.
So that's not much help and why I didn't respond previously
to that question except to point to Dr. Morin's posts.
There's no need to use more conditioner than what's
required to knock out the chlorine or chloramines. I
believe the conditioners will atach trace elements if they
don't have any of the heavy stuff to grab. But, as I
understand from what Dr. Morin has posted, the effect is
small -- the asumption being that the heavy metals are in
extrememly low concentrations -- much lower than any trace
mix adds -- so enough treat heavy metals is not enough to
seriously deplete nutrient traces. I tend to dose a bit
heavy on traces anyway and don't worry about it.
That's not an answer either, but the best I can give you.
I doubt anyone is ever ignored on APD -- too many of us
"BIG Mouths" ;-)
Sometimes, a poster simply "stumps the band" or hits the
list with, say , a chemistry question, at a time when the
chemists are busy.
Scott H.
--- António_Vitor <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt> wrote:
> If I am wrong...at least say that!
> hoo well...
> :(
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "António Vitor" <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt>
> To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
>
>
> > I posted 2 times, made a question...
> > and no answers !
> >
> > that is annoying...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "António Vitor" <antonio_vitor at sapo.pt>
> > To: "aquatic plants digest" <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 12:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> >
> >
> > > Is only my impression, or my posts are being
> neglected???
> > >
> > > António Vitor
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Laith Arif" <laith at swissonline_ch>
> > > To: "'aquatic plants digest'"
> <aquatic-plants at actwin_com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 7:35 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > >
> > >
> > > > So I guess there isn't really an issue here. The
> conditioner is not
> > going
> > > > to have an impact on the ferts/nutrients/traces for
> the plants.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for clearing that up!
> > > >
> > > > Laith
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: S. Hieber [mailto:shieber at yahoo_com]
> > > > Sent: 17 August 2004 00:42
> > > > To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > Subject: RE: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > > >
> > > > I believe Dr. Morin's basic point was that Prime
> "grabs"
> > > > the heavy metals before iron and such.
> > > >
> > > > Scott H.
> > > > --- Laith Arif <laith at swissonline_ch> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Ok, thanks for the info and the links.
> > > > >
> > > > > So Greg Morin is correct when he says "This
> should not be
> > > > > an issue unless
> > > > > you are really wanting to keep high levels of
> lead,
> > > > > mercury and cadmium ;-)
> > > > > (all toxic heavy metals)."?
> > > > >
> > > > > It's mainly these toxic heavy metals that are
> > > > > removed/neutralized?
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason I asked in the first place was just
> wondering
> > > > > whether at every
> > > > > water change and the addition of the conditioner,
> I was
> > > > > basically starting
> > > > > out with water "bare" of all metals and needed to
> take
> > > > > this into account
> > > > > when dosing ferts and traces.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the input.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Laith
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: S. Hieber [mailto:shieber at yahoo_com]
> > > > > Sent: 16 August 2004 11:36
> > > > > To: aquatic plants digest
> > > > > Subject: Re: [APD] Removes "heavy metals"?
> > > > >
> > > > > None of hte elements in the aquariumare, say,
> converted
> > > > > to
> > > > > energy -- if they are there before the
> conditioner is
> > > > > added, they are there afterwards. It's a matter
> of the
> > > > > chemical or ionic bonds and what compounds are in
> the
> > > > > tank.
> > > > >
> > > > > Conditioners that "remove" chloramine break up
> the
> > > > > compound
> > > > > into constituents that can then remain separate
> or
> > > > > recombine with other elements to form new
> compounds.
> > > > > Something that breaks up chloramine could leave
> your tank
> > > > > with a sudden dose of ammonia.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some conditioners bind the elements and bind some
> > > > > so-called
> > > > > heavy metals. The metal elements are not gone,
> but tied
> > > > > up
> > > > > in a compound that is presumably less risky to
> fish or
> > > > > plants. Some conditioners, like SeaChem Prime
> break up
> > > > > chloramine and then "grab" the nitrogen in a new
> compound
> > > > > less harmful to fish but still available to
> plants as a
> > > > > nutrient.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is an order of "preference" for what metals
> a
> > > > > conditioner will grab.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are lots of posts in the archives. Here are
> a few:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200102/msg00171.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200302/msg00030.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
>
http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200303/msg00029.html
> > > > >
> > > > > It matters what conditioner you use. If you have
> > > > > chloramines, you want something thatdoesn't leave
> you
> > > > > with
> > > > > a sudden dose of ammonia. As for trace metals, I
> don't
> > > > > think it's an issue. If there is nothing else to
> bind,
> > > > > some
> > > > > iron might be bound but the amount is small and a
> worthy
> > > > > trade-off for gaurding against chlorine,
> chloramine, and
> > > > > heavy metals. And the bound iron can still be
> gotten by
> > > > > the
> > > > > plants eventually.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good luck, good fun,
> > > > > Scott H.
> > > > > --- Laith Arif <laith at swissonline_ch> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm curious to know what exactly my water
> conditioner
> > > > > > (JBL Biotopol) means
> > > > > > by "removes heavy metals"... Does anyone know?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just wondering if besides removing chlorine and
> > > > > > chloramine it's also
> > > > > > removing useful plant nutrients (micro and/or
> macro).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > =====
> > > > > Want to get dirty but stay clean?
> > > > >
> > > > > Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the Planted
> > > > > Aquarium_ will discuss soil
> > > > > supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004 AGA
> > > > > Convention.
> > > > >
> > > > > Convention Details/Registration at
> aquatic-gardeners.org
> > > > > & gwapa.org
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > > >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > Want to get dirty but stay clean?
> > > >
> > > > Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the Planted
> Aquarium_ will
> discuss
> > > soil
> > > > supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004 AGA
> Convention.
> > > >
> > > > Convention Details/Registration at
> aquatic-gardeners.org & gwapa.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > > >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> > >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> > Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> >
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aquatic-Plants mailing list
> Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants
>
=====
Want to get dirty but stay clean?
Diana Walstad, author of _Ecology of the Planted Aquarium_ will discuss soil supplemented aquarium substrates at the 2004 AGA Convention.
Convention Details/Registration at aquatic-gardeners.org & gwapa.org
_______________________________________________
Aquatic-Plants mailing list
Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com
http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/aquatic-plants