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Re: [APD] (correction)The siphon saga continues...need safety shutoff!



This makes MUCH more sense now... I did not fully understand your setup. I was 
thinking in terms of traitional skimmer boxes and siphon tubes going to a sump 
under the tank. In that case I think you have the right ideas... keep the flow 
rate up and keep stuff out of the way from the intake. To keep the intake from 
getting clogged you just want as much surface area as possible. One idea you 
might think about is using a fairly long piece of pvc pipe and drilling a 
BUNCH of holes in it. Use this as the intake and it will give you lot more 
surface area that would need to get obstructed before it would clog.

I am glad I paid attention to this discussion... made me consider my setup. I 
realized that if anything ever DID clog my intake (not likely with a skimmer 
box) it would pump the entire contents of the sump onto the floor. I think I 
am just going to go spend the $15 on a float switch to put in the skimmer box.


Quoting Rod Gerrymander <rgerrymander at yahoo_com>:

> I AM using siphons that are not in overflow boxes, 
> and they go as deep into the tanks as possible.  They
> ARE uncontrolled, and will continue to siphon if the
> power goes out.
> 
> That is all okay, because the tanks are all at
> approximately the same level and when the power goes
> off all tanks will end up with the same water level
> and none of them will overflow.
> 
> I really just have to make sure that the siphons 
> never fail, because the pump, which is also low in
> the big tank, will just keep on pumping and pump all
> that water all over the floor.
> 
> There are two reasons for failed siphons that I can
> see.  One is bubbles breaking the siphon.  From my
> field experience over the last week I draw two
> conclusions.  (1) as someone just posted, the bubbles
> arise spontaneously in the siphon tube and are not
> pearling bubbles drawn in with the water.  (2) A
> higher flow rate essentially ends the problem.  I
> went from 1.25 in siphons to 0.75 in siphons and
> have not seen a bubble since.  However, there is still
> a danger of bubbles collecting and breaking the
> siphon during a long power outage.  The only solution
> for this seems to be AquaLifters.  I have two on
> order but they have not been shipped yet.
> 
> The other problem is the siphon intakes being clogged.
> My solution for that, not yet implemented, is to 
> build a branching intake structure with many input
> points widely separated (these tanks are part of 
> the workings of the main tank and are not for show).
> 
> It occurs to me that using an overflow box on the
> main tank would be a form of safety shutoff.  The
> main tank could not empty out enough to overflow
> the service tanks, even if a siphon shut down.  The
> only risk is an overheated pump, and I am prepared
> to risk that.
> 
> I have really appreciated the discussion on this
> issue.  You guys are great.
> 
> Thanks,
> Rod
> 
> --- revance at indiana_edu wrote:
> > I just want to correct myself... I see what you mean
> > about the evaporation. 
> > The water levels should be roughly the same in the
> > inside and outside box, so 
> > if the water level starts to drop in the tube around
> > the second siphon in the 
> > skimmer box it will replenish itself from the other
> > side. For this to work you 
> > need to make sure your siphon tube goes far enough
> > down on the skimmer side.
> > 
> > 
> > Quoting Laura Burbage <leuhrich at yahoo_com>:
> > 
> > > If I remember correctly, the air was getting into
> > the
> > > siphon because the plants were pearling a lot, no?
> >  If
> > > this is the case, then the part of the skimmer box
> > > that resides _inside_ the tank will keep out the
> > > bubbles.  The bubbles would go around it, and
> > break at
> > > the water surface, while surface water overflows
> > into
> > > the skimmer box.  Even if a few bubbles did get
> > into
> > > the skimmer box, they would still stay at the top
> > (and
> > > break), while the intake for the siphon is a few
> > > inches lower.  The inside skimmer box is also what
> > > keeps your tank from draining if the pump should
> > stop
> > > (the water level falls below the top surface of
> > the
> > > box and ceases to drain into it).  Oh! and a
> > really
> > > good point that I didn't think of was that both
> > > siphons could drain to the same outside overflow
> > box,
> > > preventing water from evaporating from it. If the
> > > second inside skimmer box is higher than the
> > first,
> > > the siphon will just sit there on call until
> > needed.
> > > 
> > > OK, really primitive drawing below to show the
> > path of
> > > the bubbles that are currently getting in the
> > siphon.
> > > 
> > > -Laura
> > > 
> > >               siphon
> > >           ______________
> > >    inside | __________  |
> > >       box | |         | |
> > > ~~~:~~~|~~| |~~|~! |  | |      |
> > >    : . |  | |  | ! |  | |      |
> > >       .|_______| ! |~~| |~| |~~|
> > >         . .      ! |  | | | |  | outside overflow
> > box
> > >  tank      :     ! |______| |__|
> > >            :     !        | |
> > >            :     !        | |
> > >         bubbles  !        to sump
> > >            :     !
> > > WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!    
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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