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[APD] RE: NH4= algae, not NO3/PO4 <Tom>
Tom,
Thanks for the feedback and I have a few responses....
<Well adding more light ain't going to help.>
I have been out of the planted tank arena for quite sometime...In my first
post here 3 weeks ago I stated back in 1995, and at that time good
reflectors were not very well made at all! I had an ICE CAP system with NO
reflectors, the 2x 95VHO bulbs were attached DIRECTLY to my canopy hood. My
first VERY small batch of Glosso do NOT grow at all in my 24" high tank. At
that time 195w = NO growth of Glosso. That was the ONLY thing different up
to now, a GOOD reflector. Kinda funny how we live and learn over time. At
the onset of me getting my tank back into the swing of things, I knew way
back when 195w did NOT cut the mustard for the Glosso's, so I decided to
make sure I doubled the light and bring up the Co2 for the Glosso. Ass I
said earlier, WOW, today's reflectors DO penetrate 24" of water!! I wish I
had a LUX meter then and now!
<Yea, great raid Gloss growth ...................then what? Now you have to
deal with this damn weed's growth rate. PITA.
Try less light, keep the high CO2 and keep the water changes, dose 2x a
week and it grows better and more importantly, last longer looking good.>
SNIP
<It'll always come back, it'll laugh at you.
It sure DID laugh at me, funny how after only 3 hours after a 75% water
change it came back! :)....I now am using less light and yes the "weed" as
you call it is spectacular!! I caught the bloom VERY early on, and the UV,
PLUS a massive water change cured the outbreak in a day and a half. I'm now
back to clear water and dosing as normal AND watching VERY closely.
<So remember it doesn't take long to grow 4" of Gloss, but I don't like 4"
of Gloss.
I like no more than about 1/2" tight, healthy carpet. IOnlyu enough to
cover the gravel,. not piled up on itself.>
Well, I guess that is a matter of preference Tom. I think over the years
with ALL the different landscapes I have tried, this is the MOST beautiful
yet. I wish I could post some pics somewhere so folks can see this. The 4"
thick glosso is now almost covering 3/4 of the tank leading up to a huge and
wonderful foothills of a piece of 20" high driftwood that really looks like
Mt. Everest. I call this aquascape "The Climb." Kinda cool seeing all those
shrimp climbing to the top of the mountain! :D
SNIP
<It's not practical for us, just have some fish and feed them(this will be
your source of NH4), dose your KNO3 etc(This is your source of NO3).>
Tom, is there REALLY a one in all KNO3 type fert out there? I still have 4
bottles of Dupla 24 on-hand and readily have available any Dupla products I
need. I also have Kent Freshwater Plant that list the ingredients as;
SOURCES OF NUTRIENTS
Made of potash, iron EDTA, manganese EDTA, zinc EDTA, sodium EDTA, cobalt
chloride, copper EDTA, sodium molybdate.
Soluble Potash (K20) 3%
Copper (CU) (Min)) .00001%
Iron (Fe) (Min) .24%
.24% Chelated Iron
Manganese (Mn) (Min) .01%
Molybdenum (Mo) (Min) .0009%
Zinc (Zn) (Min) .00014%
Will this do or will I need more or less of ONE particular component? What
product do you recommend?? Also, maybe I should ask George (he is very
familiar with the Dupla line) what is in Dupla 24 daily drops? Is anyone
still using the Dupla 24 daily drops any more here in America since they do
not have an importer any longer?
Take care,
Vic Di Cosola
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:44:55 -0500
From: "Thomas Barr" <tcbiii at earthlink_net>
Subject: [APD] RE: NH4= algae, not NO3/PO4
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
> Hi Tom,
>
> Appreciate the feedback on the GW/Cloudy stuff. You ARE correct with the
> less light situation...I HAD to take a risk at first with my new Glosso
> tank.
Well adding more light ain't going to help.
> HEAVY light and heavy Co2 at the onset to get the Glosso going. It has
> worked, but at a price of a (almost bloom).
Yea, great raid Gloss growth ...................then what? Now you have to
deal with this damn weed's growth rate. PITA.
Try less light, keep the high CO2 and keep the water changes, dose 2x a
week and it grows better ansd more importantly, last longer looking good.
So do other plants, this was something George Booth has pointed out,
myself, Claus of Tropica etc.
More is NOT better.
Over the weekend, I did 75%
> water changes to somewhat clear the water each day.
It'll always come back, it'll laugh at you.
Today I received the UV
> filter hooked it up and the water is clearing rapidly all within 4 hours
> thus far. I caught this bloom VERY early on thanks to you and all the
others
> feedback here! I also have cut back my lighting to 2 x 92w (184w) to my
55g
> tall 36 x 15 x 24h". I had 276w at the onset.
Good grief! 184W is too much too. Try 110 or maybe 150w(1x 48 T-8 or T-12
with 2x 55w PCs)
The glosso is now 4" thick and
> growing very well. JUST got the LaMotte Fe kit and beginning to dose
> accurately.
So remember it doesn't take long to grow 4" of Gloss, but I don't like 4"
of Gloss.
I like no more than about 1/2" tight, healthy carpet. IOnlyu enough to
cover the gravel,. not piled up on itself.
> Since I've been out of the loop for a bit, what does "NH4" stand for?
Ammonium ion. Easy food for algae. Easy food for plants but you cannot
supply enough in that form without causing algae(one reason why we cannot
just keep adding more fish instead of having to dose nutrients without an
algae bloom)
In
> your post you also listed N, K, and P. I know of course Fe is the iron,
is
> the N=Nitrite, K=Hardness and P=Potassium??
K= potassium, NPK is the number sequence they have on sides of fertilizers
at nurseries.
I am lacking something of
> course. I just measured my Fe and am below .05 thus far.
Read some old post on Fe, I do not measure it nor do I recommend measuring
it and I know I will likely never measure it in order to keep a nice plant
tank.
My Co2 is good,
> but I'm unsure what is the NH4 and how do I test for this? Thanks Tom!!
Well you can test for it but it's produced and used so fast you nwever will
get an accurate reading of what's there without using labeled isotopes like
15N etc.
Not many hobbyist have these types of ability(Mass spectrophotometers etc)
and testing procedures:)
But there are ways to test for how much is produced within a given system.
It's not practical for us, just have some fish and feed them(this will be
your source of NH4), dose your KNO3 etc(This is your source of NO3).
NO3 should supply most of plant's N needs.High levels do not seem to induce
algae. Many people have stated this in the past.
I believe they are incorrect.
I believe it is the NH4 they are missing that causes all the algae and then
this NH4 is converted by the nitrogen cycle bacteria into NO3, and that is
what they are measuring as the build up and correlating as the cause for
the algae.
The same thing can be said for PO4.
Everyone missed the NH4 as the cause for algae blooms.
You can do this test yourself.
Use inorganic NH4 salts and NO3 salts and PO4 salts.
No fish or critters to speak of, lots of plants etc.
Since there is no real significant source of NH4 and only NO3 bering added,
you can see if algae blooms occur.
I went up to 75ppm of NO3 with 1ppm of PO4 and no bloom occured after 3
weeks, but all plant needs were met(Fe, traces, K+, CO2 good light etc).
Regards,
Tom Barr
>
> Vic Di Cosola
>
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2003 14:48:13 -0500
From: "Thomas Barr" <tcbiii at earthlink_net>
Subject: [APD] RE: seeing GW cells
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
FYI, green water cells run about 2-3 microns, too small and too fast to ID
with a light microscope.
You need a Scanning electron microscope for this.
The medical dept is stealing ours so I'll hopefully get some images of GW
soon.
Regards,
Tom Barr
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:42:24 -0800
From: Dave Gomberg <dave1 at wcf_com>
Subject: [APD] CO2 equipment
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
At 08:18 AM 12/9/2003, you wrote:
>Dave Gomberg also had a decently priced kit, but I think he sold off his
>CO2 equipment business.
Not true. Same old kit, same old price and terms. If you are not going
to try to stabilize pH, but let it fluctuate like it does in nature, then
mine is one of the best deals out there. All American made, too.
If you just want cheap, there is one out there for about $80 for regulator
and needle valve. But it has a non-removable solenoid built in, so you
need 110v to run it. And it has a couple of safety and legal issues.
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:51:35 -0800
From: Dave Gomberg <dave1 at wcf_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] Tropica Mastergrow
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
At 08:18 AM 12/9/2003, you wrote:
>I have a 3/4 full bottle of tropica mastergrow that I just found amongst
all
>my extra aquarium products. It is about 2 years old. Can I still use this
>and get good results, or does this stuff have an expiration date?
TMG is good for a very long time. Use it in good health.
--
Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com
http://www.wcf.com/apbook for Kasselmann's "Aquarium Plants" book SPECIAL
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2003 12:54:48 -0800
From: Dave Gomberg <dave1 at wcf_com>
Subject: Re: [APD] CO2 accident
To: aquatic-plants at actwin_com
At 08:18 AM 12/9/2003, you wrote:
Learn how not to set up a pressurized CO2 system from me.... Be careful
and keep an eye on a new set up.
This and many other valuable CO2 tips are contained
on: http://www.wcf.com/co2iron/faq.html
--
Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE gomberg1 at wcf dot com
http://www.wcf.com/co2iron for low cost CO2 systems that work!
500th System Sale: 6 Fabco needle valves and 6 Eheim diffusors
Regularly $300 postpaid, now $200 postpaid Gas those other tanks!
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