thanks for the advice, I believe plants grow better in lower temp than say 86 degrees i can't remmeber y i think something to do with the oxygen level in the warmer water? can someone clarify that for me? although i know some plants don't do as well in warmer water than cooler, i belive java moss is one of them... thanks Raymond Wong http://www.sfu.ca/~rww/Aquariumstart.htm