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RE: Aquatic Plants Digest V4 #1517
- To: <Aquatic-Plants at actwin_com>
- Subject: RE: Aquatic Plants Digest V4 #1517
- From: "Gregory Gooden \(Annex\)" <ggooden at exc1_annex.com>
- Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 01:13:46 -0800
- thread-index: AcGW9Ryx3zyeClmbT1OsMu+7FRXGIQBKXbWg
- Thread-Topic: Aquatic Plants Digest V4 #1517
> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 03:04:21 -0800
> From: "Robert H" <robertph3 at attbi_com>
> Subject: Re: Dupla Cables & New Tank Setup Advice?
> >>I'm re-doing my big tank (it's a 125 planted) since it's OLD (lotta
> So thats where all those plants are going... :)
INDEED, and thanks to a dose of Maracyn, they're all GORGEOUS! <VBG> (my latest pics posted at the URL mentioned in tagline)
> >>For the Dupla Cables, they're quoting me either 550.00 that
> Delta controller, or 750.00 that includes the Alpha
> controller. This seems VERY expensive! Are there any sites
> where I can "comparison shop" this item? I can't seem to find
> them! If that's what I gotta pay, then I'll have to just go
> for it, but I don't wanna be a dumb consumer. ;><<
> M3 has their own heating cable system. You can order it from
> them or from me at the same price.
Actually, I contacted them about it, and they informed me the following:
"Sorry to tell you that we have discontinued on the old brand
of cable heater. Cos' we have been waiting for the next-generation
low-voltage low-wattage version for over a year now. We still
don't know when they will be ready for sale. Your guess of its
launch date is as good as mine."
SO I guess they're having some supply issues. <bummer!>
> into the water colum it can be a hundred times worse. You also probably
> know you can use Flourite straight. If cost is a concern Greg,
> (which it has never seemed to be a factor for you before!) use Schultz
> Clay conditioner in 40 pound bags.
Yeah, I'm a bit doomed by my willingness to spend money (I just want it to be SMART money!)! Lol.
You, and several others stressed the importance of using AT LEAST 50% Flourite, and I've taken that to heart!
> >>For the Flourite (I'm assuming the 7kg bags), I see them on
> bigals for
> 12.99 per bag, but my LFS is listing higher on that (I
> believe 20bux a bag), so I suspect the rest of the bid may be
> inflated. <<
> The biggest factor in price is shipping. Most stores only buy
> a case or two at a time from a distributor, and they pay a
> hefty shipping cost. Some of the bigger mail order houses
> probably buy it by the truck load, but with the shipping cost
> you pay the total cost to you is close to $20 a bag.
> Sometimes you can find a deal on the internet, but its pretty
> close either way.
Indeed! I had totally forgotten about that, and a few people on the list brought that to my attention (thank goodness someone is helping keep me sane! ;> ).
Lots of other message snipped along with TONS of great messages both ON the list and off the list from ya'll.. THANKS SO MUCH!! I feel so grateful that there is a resource like this to participate in!
For the curious; here's what I decided after all the messages/advice, research and deliberation. You'll see the advice of MANY integrated with this.. ;>
I ordered the 135 setup today MOSTLY as I had described before. With the following changes:
Heating Cables: I got "over it" on the Dupla pricing (after shopping around) and purchased it anyways but with the cheaper controller (this, after all, isn't my primary heater). My LFS can use the extra couple bux to "be there" a year from now.. I had considered some cable that are made US-Side (a very nice guy from fishvet.com directed me to them and I believe I'll probably get some of them after this for my 67gallon). I guess in this instance, I just had too many people say "get the dupla cables cause their the best, possibly a cheaper controller/transformer", and since this is a big tank (and I don't wanna change much after it's set up), I wanted to go with the "Brand" on it.
Substrate: I got my LFS to "discount" the Flourite, and decided to go ALL Flourite (3" in front, 5" in back), but with a peat underlayer along with a very light sprinkling of some First Layer Latterite I have sitting around. I'll probably mix 1-2 gallons of my old gravel (a finer gravel) into the mix to help with the "cycle avoidance". I will grab a bunch of mulm from the old tank and put it on the bottom as well. Several people figured the mulm/peat thingie was a good plan. I'm all for it!
Filtration: Not many changes, although I'm taking Tom's advice and getting the "Quiet One" (my LFS recommended it too) for the Sump. I had them set it so that I can disconnect my Eheim ThermoFilter (and close the bulkhead fittings for "later use" after I'm safely past the "cycle possible period". I PRAY part that goes well. Using as MUCH old water as I can. Between that, mulm, SOME old gravel and possibly some other old gravel in the sump for safety, perhaps it'll go smoothly. I've got some gorgeous Discus and they all have names (I'm quite attached to them.. Grin). And George, thanks about the note on the pumping air into the filtration (not doing it).. My LFS wuz gonna build it that way.. I told them NO!). Even had them make a COVER for my sump to keep the CO2 in.
Misc: My existing UV and Injected CO/2 will be present, and 4 x 96watt CFs for lighting (I have two already, will mix colours between front/back as I have with my 96w - 50w front/backs).. I got some digital timers so that I can do some "sunrise/sunset" stuff with the front/back bulbs. I do that with my reef tank, and it gives me slightly more "view time" (and I'm always a night owl!).
Tom's post really intrigued me, so Tom if you don't mind, I have a few followup questions for you. <grin, duck!>
1 - CO2 Controller: You said this:
"Drop the controller part and use the probe as a monitor
and run the CO2 at a constant rate. Also, pH in the sump
will much lower than in the well run tank. Check to make
I'd not dare to argue with your knowledge (grin), but this scares the heck outta me, mostly because the use of CO2 is so relatively new to me (I had a Carbo Plus only up until 3 months ago). Is there a "setting" I can use to keep my CO2 bubbling WITHOUT causing too deep a pH swing or suffocating my fishies? I admit that I still have a lot to learn in this area.
Currently, I buffer my kH up to 3.5 with Baking Soda, and use CO2 to bring the pH to 6.6 using the controller.
Also, what are the factors that make pH in the sump lower? Is this a lighting issue, or just the oxygenation that occurs from tank through pre-filter?
2 - UV: You mentioned that I might want UV for a day a week.. Is there any harm in doing what I currently do; Run it 24/7, other than having to replace the bulb more often? (hopefully not a silly question).
3 - Wet/Dry - Micron Bag Filters: I'm afraid I plead ignorance on this one. Are these things that go into a sump in place of bio/balls, or is this a different kind of filtration (like the Rainbow systems)? Or possibly a pre-filter item?
4 - Outflow: You said:
"The return would run a spray bar along the bottom back wall
(make sure to drill a small antisiphon hole in the return right
below the surface of your tank's water level!!)."
Bottom back wall.. Near the gravel level spraying up?
Also, this antisiphon hole I suspect is INSIDE the tank rather than outside, right?
Well there's MY sob story! <grin>
Thanks again EVERYONE! So many helpful messages. I feel like my brain's gonna explode with all the new and helpful information.. Long live the APD and its members!
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