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Re: nutrients from 2 days ago

> NO3 have never been below about 4 ppm (last few months)

In many cases they will dip below this, but if you have enough fish load or
organic matter decomposing etc it happens.
> I would suspect this also, but plant growth is distorted and NO3 is about 7
> ppm (measured with a Aquarium Pharm. kit). PO4- is a little less than 1 ppm
> (Hagen test kit) and I just added 10 mL of TMG on Thursday when I did a 20%
> change as well as another 5 mL. on Sun.

I have little confidence in the kits for NO3. I'm almost ready to get an ion
meter for NH4 and NO3:). I ponder my Lamott kit to some extent also but a
cheap kit is pretty hard to get narrow ranges and a good kit is still
relatively difficult in the range I'm looking for(.5-5ppm at .2 increments).
If you can compare it to a known standard for the color that would help.
I still think your too low on the traces. After a water change, unless you
have a high fish load, you should see drop in NO3. If not then you might
consider being suspicious. Fine out what the tap water has, PO4 and NO3.

>> suspect that the plants may have been used to low K (2 ppm my tapwater),
> and
>> may be a bit shocked by the new much higher concentration.
> Tom Wrote:
>>>>> "No."
> I should have also said growth was distorted- the edges of the hygrophylla
> are long thin and the edges are cupped. Can low NO3, PO4 or Trace cause
> distorted growth? I thought this is normally a symptom of low Ca++/Mg++.  I
> have read in a couple of places that if K+ is too high then Ca and Mg uptake
> can get out of line.-

Well practical experience does not agree with that to 50+ppm of K overlong
periods so I think you can not worry and scratch that one off the list. In
the context in which that info was written it may well be, but certainly not
in our case unless you try to push it well over 50ppm. That's something
you'd have to do on purpose pretty much. I've had certain plants cup in hard
water also. I think if you can raise your NO3 to 8-10ppm, add enough K,
traces everything should be fine. Try adding a little Flourish which has
about every element besides plutonium. A few things do not have Boron but I
think you get enough of some those smaller nutrients from fish foods etc.
Hygro's are pretty easy fast growers. TMG, NO3, PO4, K, Ca/Mg, CO2 are in
line you should be set.

> I wish I had a digital camera. . . Are my test kits
> measuring somthing that is not there- I tried my NO3 kit on tapwater with a
> result of 0 ppm.  The other kits have to sit much longer than the recomended
> developing times to get the results I use (typically 1/2 hour (cf. five
> minutes) for the phosphate kit and 2-3 hour (cf. 1/2 hour for the iron kit)

Well if your tap is clean(no NO3) you can do big water changes to dilute it
down and assume that your tank is relatively equal to the tap's
concentration. A few days of changes and you should be close. Anyhow, adding
KNO3 to this will give you about 6.2 ppm or something close per 35 gallons
of water per 1/4 teaspoon(1.67 grams). So if your tank is an 80 gallon
(minus the gravel etc a 1/2 teaspoon will give about 6ppm of NO3. If you
have .5ppm of PO4 and .6ppm you can expect to see them fall with good
lighting and traces and K. I don't like testing for iron or K. I doubt
anyone does here. CO2, NO3 and PO4 seem the best ones to watch. Traces are
more a "learned" dosing routine it seems to me. I never listened to what was
recommend(gee can you tell?)for that and a number of other things. I just
eyeballed the plants and got lucky but knew enough to know what things
needed to be put together and a flow to fixing troubles. CO2/KH/GH->NO3->
K-> PO4-> Traces. Namely I do not let anything go more than 3-4 days atmost
with out a dosing of KNO3, KH2PO4, traces. If your tap has this/these, make
adjustments accordingly.
Re set the tank with water changes and add the nutrients back in. Eventually
it will work and the plant will start growing. Be patient. If you do it in
earnest, it takes about 2-3 weeks to turn most any tank around. Some plants
stay stunted no matter what you do but they typically sprout off side
Tom Barr       
> Tom, any other thoughts. . .?