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Re: CO2 and needle valves

Dave said:

> I have not yet found such a valve.  One writer suggested the ARO line,
> their smallest current valve is a 119-307-103 and the company's tech
> support waffles on the question of whether it will run all the way to shut
> off.  I bought one and tried it, it does nothing to stem the flow.   The Cv
> is way too large, it is intended for much larger flows.

I did not like the ARO's and I did not suggest it either. They seemed quite
junky IMO. The valves that are sold by Monolith are good and certainly good
for the money. The Nupro that Steve uses is quite good as well but cost
more. I'm sure there are other's out there in a middle range. But the 19$
valves do just fine for my tanks......I've done a number.  You have taken
the cheapest valve you can find for the comment. That may be some of it.
Beyond a small airline valve, the ARO is about as cheap as you can go.
> 
> Now maybe there is a valve that can be set to a Cv of .000001.   You should
> expect that its maximum Cv would be about .0001.  But I haven't found
> it.  Hoke does make a "micro-metering" valve, but it is very expensive.
> 
> Does anyone else have a proposed valve for use in this application?

You do not need a micro metering valve. You can talk of theory till your
blue but the practical side of things is that it can be done quite well
without such a finely precise valve quite easily without spending 50$+.
Flow delivery doesn't vary with the M3 valves. That matters when you leave
town for a couple of weeks.
I have a nice pH meter and other methods of getting some accurate pH and KH
readings but most folks don't, nor want to, nor need these to grow plants
well. There's a range the CO2 can fall in to, not some precise set point.
 The table is good for estimating. But it's not the most accurate thing
either without good test data to go with it.

I haven't had an issue yet and have lots of valves all over and also use
them at home. I do have one out of about 25(?) or so that's a little funny
as it goes to zero after a couple of days at lower flows. I have to readjust
it but I just replaced it instead. But it goes to zero, not going up in
flow. This is much better than adding too much. Beyond that, never an issue
with that product or any valve except the ARO's.
 
You've been resisting and fighting this valve thing for years. Just take the
plunge  and call up Ed from Monolith, pester Wright or Nupro etc whatever
and be done with it. Life ain't - shouldn't be this difficult. It's just one
little old valve, small spuds. These valves work fine and I use what I
preach. It's one of the easiest of my tools with plants to deal with. I wish
other things were as reliable.

Don asks:
> 
> 
> 1)Describe your CO2 setup.

Nooooo, don't wanna. Okay, cheap Keg works regulator(55$), M3 needle valve
19$, cheesy Anthoney's 10 lb 40$ firehouse tank(filled!), silicone tubing 1$
and my internal and external reactors/diffusers which I sell and make.
I have a manifold of 5 valves (all M3) at home. My pressure is 17-18psi.
Alan Kaufman (SFBAAPS member) bought one of my old set ups when I left the
Bay and love the heck out of it. He had a HP disc prior.

> 2)What valve do you use (company name, part number, etc.)?

2 Nupro's, one dupla (shame on me:)), a bunch of M3's(Clippard). I think
there's an old Ehiem somewhere also. Oh, an Aqualine Buschuke (whatever the
spelling is) as well. I like the Dupla the best, then the Nupro, then the
M3's but cost being considered the M3 wins. It's all metal and can be closed
off completely.

> 3)How long have you been using this type of setup?

Oldest one is about 4-5 years or so. Store bought unit. Mine are 3 years old
or so and some are newer etc. The dupla is from 1991 or so. Don't recall or
know on the others. None are "broke".

> 4)Have you experienced any problems with this setup?

No, see above one M3 goes to zero after two days turning off the flow.
 
> 5)If you could change something(s) about your current setup, what would it
> be?

Nothing, it works well. Happy me and happy plants.

> 6)What cV flow rates do you use?

Don't care, don't need to care, don't want to care.

 I use about a bubble a second on some tanks, some get 3 bubbles a second,
etc. That works for a rough estimate then I follow the chart provided
there's enough KH (3 or more) and I'm done. Test the pH and that's a wrap.
As Bob said "...this ain't rocket science". I could not agree more.

Regards, 
Tom Barr