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re: Dave Gomberg

On Mon, 11 Sep 2000 13:00:17 -0700 (PDT)  sruth cience
<truthinscience at yahoo_com>  wrote:

Why would anyone start a thread TITLED with someone else's name?  That's just

>You are selling cheap CO2 equipment and claiming it
>reliable when in fact it has a sereous flaw. Lets sum
>up some facts from your own web site and recent posts.

Ok, I don't care where you're from, at least have the decency to run your text
through a spell checker (mainly talking about the rest of the message I cut)

I trimmed the rest of your lecture on "Reality."  Seems to me you're the
resident expert on fact and fiction yet offer no practical advice or any
information of your own at all.  

Here's a bit of reality for you:  Dave does not make any of the components in
his "system."  So, are you questioning the sanity of putting together a system
based on those components or the components themselves?  Have you ever looked at
or used any of those specific parts before?  Even talked to anyone that has?

Here's some more reality that Dave can provide you with numbers for...  He has
many satisfied customers using his kit.  I don't have a vested interest in this
at all, I don't even know Dave except from the list and the Aquaria groups.  I
have talked to a few people running the parts shown and described on his web
page.  I do not have "his" kit.  I do believe I understand how it works, why it
works and why it can fail.

So let's break it down.  What's the garbage component?  The regulator?  You can
find the same/similar regulators yourself if you look at some wholesale websites
(try www.4rapid1.com).  A great many regulators will discharge at an increased
pressure when the contents of the cylinder become gaseous.  Next...  The Eheim
Reaktor?  It's not able to handle the increased pressure and may pop off the
hose barb - what do you expect?  It's not threaded onto the regulator.   The CO2
hose and fittings perhaps?  Well, if the fitting at the regulator failed or the
hose popped off of it, you wouldn't be left with any CO2 dumping into your
aquarium, so that can't be the problem.  Or do you blame the hose for popping
off at the reaktor side instead of the device itself?

So maybe you're talking about the combination of the parts.  It's important to
be specific about that - and it's something that was missed by a few people that
had a vested interest (for whatever reason) to try and cut Dave down.

If the regulator and system as a whole were completely stable and allowed the
cylinder to exhaust itself without a problem, how long would you leave your
aquarium without refilling the cylinder?  How would you know the CO2 supply had
ended?  Would you dig through to find your diffusor or other device?  Would you
just wait around until you noticed changes in your ph?  Maybe you'd check the
regulator?  Ah.  So, if you're checking that regulator on some kind of regular
basis, what's wrong with treating it as empty and going for a refill when it
goes down to say 500psi?  Or even anything below 800?  If output pressure can be
maintained at a constant setting throughout the length of time the cylinder
shows full pressure, then really there isn't much to worry about.  You could
easily dose too much CO2, killing all your fish by leaving your needle valve or
other flow restricting device open too far.

If you want a SAFETY, then follow one of the procedures mentioned by Dave in one
of those messages you commented on (there were three).  It's the same thing
other systems do.  Put a needle valve on the regulator and set it to provide the
same pressure you would otherwise set on the regulator for the sintered glass
device (15-20psi I believe).  Now you just have to trust that the needle valve
can maintain that setting regardless of regulator performance.

I really don't see much of a problem either way, nor a big issue.  The only
problem is people trying to blast off insulting others while not actually
providing any information themselves.  Just "credentials" - leave them at the
door and bring the goods only please.  You need a two-line breakdown of the
problem causing the insults?  Take a look at the recent message from Erik.  The
appropriate two lines are in ALL CAPS.

Oh last thing?  I don't believe anyone owes anyone else an apology at this
point.  How about just providing more information and less simplicity.  Such as:
"Your stuff is garbage!"  or "Just go buy a regulator and hook it up."  We need
numbers (spec, part numbers, prices, etc..) and details of part combinations -
because most people are familiar with at least the basic necessary components.
It's always nice to know what fits well together and exactly what other people
are using successfully.