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Re: Follow up-- Need help/opinions

Jeff,

	Thanks for the clarifin :)

	Ya know, if the conditions are just right in spots within that "not
stopped up" filter, toxic hydrogen compounds (H2SO4 and others) as well
as ammonia can be produced, as the filter will partially "biofilter" in
reverse basically, going from nearly all aerobic to partially anaerobic
with differing populations of anaerobic bacteria replacing the dying
aerobic populations, which produces a cycle that feeds on itself. If ya
had any stink to the tank before the big water change, like I do when I
get too far behind on filter floss washout, that's a good clue.
	Sulfide gas (H2S) comes from decaying organic matter containing sulfur
and it is poisonous.  H2SO4 is sulfuric acid and is a liquid at room
temp. A person who posted a message on one of the lists that did a
lookup of hydrogen sulfide in the Merck Index (a reference book for
chemistry) reported that the Index said it smelled like rotten eggs.  It
also said that it would react with the dissolved oxygen in water to form
elemental sulfur, and obviously this would drastically reduce the DO
level of the water. H2S would produce a few bubbles, but in a filter
environment this would be masked, however, the rotten egg smell would
not! The drop in ph associated with H2SO4 in solution is deadly in
itself, and will feed a cycle of death and resulting decay as well.

	Also, plants take up nitrogen compounds, including ammonia in differing
amounts for different types of course. That's one reason I use some
duckweed and let a bit of algae grow on the side of the tank too. The
duckweed has to be removed often of course, but is a real good filter in
itself, as is the algae.
	Course if you get H2SO4 in solution in the water, I think the quick
action to change the most water as possible is certainly the best
choice, regardless of adjustment problems otherwise.
	If the sunnies were adjusted to a lower ph (from an established tank)
and higher salt content, the different water in the tank might have
affected them with adjustment though, then a big change could make this
even worst, but sunnies generally have been real hardy along these lines
when I kept them, and will not croak unless the conditions are toxic
somehow.


Herb

Kudzu wrote:
> 
> OK I need to clarify myself. I am a good little house keeper. I do
> weekly to bi weekly water changes and clean the gravel. Well actually
> this is a kitty litter (clay) with sand substrate tank. This tank
> really does not have enough light on it so there is always a lot of
> debris from the plants. BUT it is heavily planted and plants consume
> ammonia very quickly. I dont have a test kit right now, my tanks have
> been established so long I haven't bothered to pick one up. (bad
> boy!!) Anyway there is always a debris problem in this tank but there
> has been for a long time!. I run a Magnum 250 on there every so often
> just to stir it up and to clean the debris out that I cant get with a
> Python because of the sand. This works really well and gives the fish
> some exercise with all the current it creates too! Haha
> 
> The filter is a Whisper hang on the tank. Aeration isn't a problem I
> dont think. Filter was due cleaning but not stopped up.
> 
> The thing is that the Tetras that were in there were and still are
> fine. I moved them to den to my 60G and they appear totally healthy.
> Along with the Cory's I moved. That is what puzzles me! Only the
> Killies were sick and then when I had to move the sunnies in half of
> them died. Bass are fine.
> 
>  I did the large water change because I knew that something was bad
> wrong and that was quickest and best thing to do at this point.
> 
> Ammonia spike? Possible but I doubt it.
> Aeration? No
> debris? Maybe, not sure
> 
> Jeff <*\\><
> "Consider carefully what you hear", he continued "With the measure you
> use it, it will be measured to you -- and even more.  Whoever has will
> be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken
> from him." Mark 4:24,25
> www.airnet.net/kudzu/ "Kudzu's Christian Clipart Collection"
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