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Pteronotropis breeding (was: Re: "KELD THINGGAARD HANSEN" <keld.t.h.fisk at get2net_dk>: problems)

Robert, John, Keld,

	I posted a message to John concerning bluenose shiners, and since these
Pteronotropis all have some commonality, I will elaborate a bit and add
some to what I told him before. Take all this with the large gulp of
water and the handful of salt, since I have not gotten the equipment set
up yet either tank wise, or for increasing the DO, or the gradual
temperature rise back from the trigger drop, so have not tried these for
captive fish, but the ideas are consistent with simulating what I have
observed in the natural situation for bluehead.
	Parameters of Mr. Hansen sound reasonable, but I would add that if I
were trying for bluehead, I'd say try to use as large a tank as
reasonable, 20 or 30, then increase in DO, either trickled bubble or
intermittent bell charge methods will do within 3 hrs of minimum of a
10F deg temp drop. I'd go with DO increase slightly ahead of the temp
drop seems as that might work best, then keep DO up for about 3 days.
Begin with with the gradual leveling to ~78, then drop to at least ~70
with up DO in the course of a few hours, then gradually raise temp to
back to ~78.
	Gradual temp changes but for the trigger drop associated with DO
increase is what I believe is the strongest trigger, but in the
situation with the bluehead, going from tannic to clearer optical
quality associated with harder going to softer and ph ~6 to ~6.5 going
to near 7 is best to simulate the natural observed conditions. Course
with heavy rains the clear water is not important, as it only occurs
after the siltation settles down, so may be assumed to be unnecessary.
	Other factors also include structure in the case of the bluehead, but I
have observed two distinct behaviors in response to different
substratum, being in mud bottom a dominant male will claim a territory
around a plant on the mud flats, and defend it with females coming to
him, and sneaker males interacting with the females on the boarder of
the defended territory as well. On rock / sand substratum a group of
between 3 to 10 or so will rush in to spawn over a sunnies nest site,
using the male sunnie to guard their eggs too. They are egg scatter's,
with sticky eggs, but do not need plants, just a clear run at a
depression in the shape of a sunnies nest.


robert a rice wrote:
> My Partner in in Denmark is struggling with breeding Flagfin and Sailfin
> shiner any help out there........?
> Robert Rice
> Save A Native Eat An Oscar <:)((((<
> Check Out the Native Fish Conservany at NFC at actwin_com
> --------- Begin forwarded message ----------
> From: "KELD THINGGAARD HANSEN" <keld.t.h.fisk at get2net_dk>
> To: "robert rice" <robertrice at juno_com>
> Cc: "robert rice" <robertrice at juno_com>
> Subject: problems
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:50:50 +0200
> Message-ID: <199807130747.JAA08767 at mb06_swip.net>
> Halo Robert,
> I have started real profesional breeding, but still no luck. The shiners
> were nice ripe,
> so I prepared very soft water. one tank dh 1, 4 and 9. Temperature 26
> celcius. One tank with stream, one with aration and one witout anything.
> A
> little plants in all 3 tanks.
> No reaction within the first 2 days, so I took the waterlevel down to 7-8
> centimeters and filled it up with fresh water a few hours later. The
> fresh
> water was 8 celcius to see if the cooler water would give any reaction.
> To-day is the 6th day and no reaction in any of the tanks.
> The crasy thing is that they spawned 3 week ago in the tanks where I
> stock
> them, so the time of the year has to be fine and they are nice ripe
> again.
> They have been fed with a mixture of dafnier, red and white mosquito
> larves, to be in perfect condition.
> Next question. Are there any sex differance exept that the fem are more
> round when they are ripe, in the bluespotted sunfish. Because they look
> all
> the same to me. Perhaps one is becomming a little more round.
> We are taking a week holiday in Stockholm from the 27th, so we hope the
> weather will improve. This summer has been very cold and wet.
> I hope you have some good avice for me. Greetings to the hole Rice
> family.Keld.
> --------- End forwarded message ----------
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