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mbinkley at earthling_net (Mark Binkley): NANFA-- Metals in Aquaria
Robert Rice
" All I am saying is give Peas a Chance !"
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: mbinkley at earthling_net (Mark Binkley)
To: nanfa at aquaria_net
Subject: NANFA-- Metals in Aquaria
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 13:18:55 -0600
Message-ID: <aff41e130502100459f4@[128.146.158.157]>
Here is some interesting info on the subject of metals used in fresh
water
aquaria. It reminded me of the discussion about using aluminum mesh in a
tank. This was copied from the killies e-mail list at
killies at mejac_palo-alto.ca.us. The lead poisoning was one suggested
cause.
Others were mentioned. Apparently the "disease" noted has been
encountered by other killi keepers too. The first message is someone's
reply to the original message from Nevin Aspinwall- hence the breaks and
comments inserted in the narrative:
From: mek at sco_com
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:09 EDT
Subject: Re: Puzzler of the Day (A Massive fish kill)
From: Nevin Aspinwall <aspinwalln at slu_edu>
Subject: Puzzler of the Day (A Massive fish kill)
This is Nevin Aspinwall in St. Louis, MO (SLAKA). I would like to
start
a new thread concerning a massive fish kill which I experienced
over the
last 2 months. I keep about 25 species of Aphyosemion and
Fundulopanchax
(sorry about no Nothobranchius, Brian). It all started when I
went down
to our field station in the Ozarks for three weeks in May to
teach some
field courses to college students. During that three weeks I lost
about
100 adult killies from a mysterious "disease" that affected many,
but
not all of my tanks. The greatest mortality was seen in tanks
with
relatively large numbers of fish.
The symptoms of the fish (symptoms which I have never seen
before) were
that the fish were very skittish when you approached the tank.
The fish
would dask madly about the tank in apparent convulsions,
cartwheeling
all over the place, then going into a seizure and resting on the
bottom.
Eventually, most recovered from this initial bout of hysteria but
then
died later. The fish showed absolutely no disease syymptoms, had
well
filled-out bellies, and ate reasonably well. It affected fry and
adults
equally well (or equally badly). I have been trying to solve this
problem and am coming to the killies email list for your
thoughts.
However, let me give you some more info. I maintain my fish in
50/50 RO
water at in initial pH of about 7.5 and a TDS of about 150-190.
St.
Louis water has reasonably hard water (lots of bicarbonate from
the
limestone and dolomite which is the bedrock in St. Louis) which
measures
230 TDS. The pH is 10.1 from the tap and I adjust it with HCl to
7.5. I
230 TDS is hard? 700 TDS is hard, 100 TDS is discus-spawning water. I'm
spawning Neville's fish from the convention in 400-500 TDS water now.
The pH is high, that's the bad thing. I have well water which is loaded
with limestone, but the pH is a convenient 7.2 which I never mess with. I
would bubble your water over peat to see what the effect on the pH is,
anything
but use HCl.
use amquel to remove chlorine and chloramines. I have used this
same
system for 2 years with no problems. The only thing that I have
done
differently is 2 things: I placed a fritz sponge filter (with
lead
weight inside) in the corner of each tank (instead of just an air
stone)
and I replaced my RO system with a Kent Marine Maxxima system
which has
a particle filter, a charcoal filter, and a resin bed. I change
about
50% of my water each week.
Are you sure about the TDS of your mixed water now that you have the new
RO
unit? It might be more efficient than you think and the resulting TDS
much
lower.
After the initial mass mortality I have lost only an
occasional fish
with the above symptoms. In trying to solve this problem I have
been
making lots of observations. First of all, I "believe" that the
problem
is likely due to water quality since there are no other obvious
disease
symptons and because erratic behavior is often associated of some
types
of poisoning. My recent observations has revealed that whenever I
see a
fish with this erratic behavior the pH of the water is around 4.4
to
4.7. When I observe this pH I immediately change 1/2 of the water
to
bring the pH to above at least 6.0. With this treatment, the
symptoms
subside and the fish don't die usually. What has me baffled is
how the
water in the tanks can drop from 7.5 to 4.4-4.7 in a matter of
one week.
This is baffling because the hardness of St. Louis should buffer
against
such a drastic pH change. So, this is the "Puzzler for the Day".
Specificaly, I would appreciate comments on the following
questions:
1. Have you ever observed this behavior in your killies?
Rarely, only in overcrowded fry containers where the pH has dropped low
from mismanagement of the uneaten brine shrimp by yours truly. Basically,
got to keep the snail stock going in the fry containers otherwise I get
problems.
2. Is this behavior associated with a low pH in your tanks?
I think so; I've taken to raising my fry in straight, unsoftened (I have
an
RO as well) tap water and this has made it much easier for me.
3. Have you ever observed the behavior of your killies when the
pH is in
the neighborhood of 4.4-4.7?
Not exactly
4. Have you had success in raising and breeding killies in water
with a
hardness of 230 TDS. (In St. Louis water "TDS" is pretty much
equivalent
to calcium\magnesium hardness because that's all there is in the
water.
No organics nor high levels of any other inorganics which would
contribute to TDS).
Yes, I'm raising *your* killies in my water now, as long as I feed those
horses (A. oeseri) I get fair numbers of eggs and lots of fry. They like
to
eat though.
Thanks a lot for your help. Sincerely, Nevin Aspinwall
Good luck. Try acclimating the fish to straight tapwater and see what
happens.
Matt
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From: huntley at ix_netcom.com (Wright Huntley )
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:44:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Puzzler of the Day (A Massive fish kill)
Nevin mentioned a sponge filter with a lead weight in it.
I used to think lead was inert in the aquarium until I killed a bunch
of fish with almost identical symptoms. It turns out that acid water
can dissolve the lead, and they die quickly of lead poisoning, with the
bizarre neurological symptoms Nevin described.
I'd sure vote for lead poisoning, after my experiences with it.
Wright
Who now uses plastic balls to weight his mops. ;-)
- --
Wright Huntley (408) 248-5905 Santa Clara, CA USA huntley at ix_netcom.com
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