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Re: NFC: Re: Fw: Resources other than timber now of secondaryimportanceon Monongahela

Roosevelt created them as they exist today.  He in fact created new
national forests at such a prolific rate that Congress passed a law
denying the power of the Presidency to do so and put it into congressional
hands.  As the deadline approached for the law to take effect, Roosevelt
and his staff were up  all night in the White House pouring over
maps of every state in the country, drawing boundaries and setting aside
HUGE (caps for emphasis only) tracks of timber that before that were not
designated as National Forests.  If memory serves me, Roosevelt set aside
more national forests than all other Presidents combined and since his
administration the addition of new forests has not occurred or been
extremely negligible.

Roosevelts views on conservation and how these public lands shoudl be used
also put him at odds with industrialists who had the congres "in their hip
pockets" so to speak and thus the legislation barring the President from
creating these reserves without congressional approval.

This is a fascinating historical subject and I think I will try to
investigate it further and write a brief article on the subject for the
Flier as time permits.

Luke McClurg

On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Wally Billingham wrote:

> Well my friend it is you who needs to check your history. You see the
> National Forests were created under President Cleveland in 1895. They were
> created during a time in our history where their was a Great Economic
> Depression that was caused among other things by foreign imports and the
> tariffs used by Cleveland's rivals to control them. President Cleveland saw
> the need for America to have a continuous source of timber (and other
> resources). He therefore created the "National Forest Reserves" in 1895.
> Then in 1905 the Forest Reserves were transferred from the control of the
> "General Land Office" to a new agency called the U.S. Forest Service. In
> 1905 the newly created forest service also published a use guide for the
> National Forest Reserves. (they were not called National Forests until 1907)
> the very first paragraph from that guide states the following (you can read
> the whole thing at http://www.lib.duke.edu/forest/usfscoll/007-011.htm#7
> "Forest reserves are for the purpose of preserving a perpetual supply of
> timber for home industries, preventing destruction of forest cover which
> regulates the flow of streams, and protecting local residents from unfair
> competition in the use of forest and range. They are patrolled and
> protected, at Government expense, for the benefit of the community and the
> home builder."
> So you see Roosevelt DID NOT as you say create them Cleveland did and they
> were created for "the purpose of preserving a perpetual supply of timber for
> home industries" Thats what they were created for way back in 1895.
> I am not trying to start another flame war on this board, Timber and wood
> products are a HUGE industry around here. Everyday I see the trucks and
> trains filled with logs roll through my town, It is the one remaining viable
> industry around here. I am just getting tired of people thinking that the
> Forests are parks or wildlife refuges when they are not.
> Wally
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mcclurg luke e <mcclurgl at washburn_edu>
> To: <nfc at actwin_com>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 4:06 PM
> Subject: Re: NFC: Re: Fw: Resources other than timber now of
> secondaryimportance on Monongahela
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 18 Dec 2001, Wally Billingham wrote:
> >
> > >" National Forests are for the production of
> > > timber they are not parks, they are not wildlife refuges, they are for
> the
> > > harvesting of timber. Thats what they were established for."
> >
> >
> > Uhm, double check your historical accuracy on that one my friend.  Teddy
> > Roosevelt might disagree with you on your statements.  Roosevelt
> > established these areas to KEEP them from being raped by timber companies
> > for a "fast buck".  Harvesting is allowed on them as part of the over all
> > maintenance plan, but they are NOT exclusively set up for timber
> > production.  Roosevelt was a big supporter/believer in conservation.
> > That's why he established the national park system and the national
> > forests.  He was at odds against Congress and big business who didn't want
> > him setting aside so many areas because they wanted the timber for
> > themselves.  These resources belong to all U.S. citizens, not just the
> > timber industry and Roosevelt recognized that.  For that reason, he
> > established these areas (along with National Parks to completely preserve
> > unique areas) for the benefit of future generations.  That includes those
> > who earn their living from timber...but not those people exclusively.
> >
> > Yes, we all use timber and timber products.  It is a necessary industry
> > and we need to keep it healthy.  Boo is right though (gads! I hate saying
> > that!!!!  ROFLOL!!!) in that a lot of our timber is used by foreign
> > interests not ourselves.  I believe in maximum sustained yield and the
> > conservation and economic principles behind it and believe it works when
> > done correctly.  Everyone benefits when good conservation practices are
> > used.  No one benefits when only one group is considered in the
> > planning...especially to the exclusion of all other interests and
> > benefits.
> >
> > The timber industry needs to be reformed. It doesn't need access to more
> > public lands and timber.  (my honest opinion)
> >
> > Luke McClurg
> >