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Re: NFC: Re: Collecting and BP...ETC
> You've been rather long winded about this Chris and it seems your demands
> keep changing. SO just so I understand this you would like testimonies
> from people who have been educated buy NFC programs ?
Robert, why don't you just answer SOME of the questions I've asked? Nothing
has been answered yet. Some very general numbers were given about
membership dues and auction money raised for a one year period, but nothing
about where it went. But like I said, I'm looking forward to the flier that
has a financial report. Since there are supposed to be monthly reports, I
think it is reasonable to expect one in every flier.
As for being long winded, I'd rather be that than use such insults to evade
> Chris I Havent been closed at all but 3-4 multi page letters per day is
> more than I typically have to deal with so I'm a bit behind.
You're obviously responding to messages. Just not mine. And no, this is
not a response. This is, to borrow your own terminology, long winded. But
there is no substance yet. Just insults lobbed at me.
> You started
> off replying to Mr Rogers question about is the NFC a conservation
> Then have gone off on several tangents.
Nothing wrong with that, is there?
> Some I followed
> some i didn't .
So please respond to the stuff you follow, and show me specifically what you
don't follow so I can ask you more clearly.
> Now I understand you want to change the By laws. To what
> end ?
To further the goals of the NFC. The current bylaws are:
1) Not being followed, at least not that the general membership can see.
2) Not effectively promoting the goals of the club. It's broke. Let's fix
> I hate to break the news to you but there is no long list of people
> willing to put in the time and extra pocket change to do work locally let
> alone nationally.
I understand that. But what about the short list? If we have a few
thousand in the coffers being split between 3 active members, wow, that is
some impressive grant money for fish breeding projects. I don't think that
is what is happening. But what IS happening?
> So a single one year term to prove yourself as you put
> it will only encourage those with an agenda like lets fire Mr. XYZ then
> when they achieve their goal.
Maybe so, maybe not. This happened once in NANFA and you got caught on the
short end of the stick. NANFA had a long history before that altercation.
Did this happen every year in NANFA? Is that how you took the presidency?
I'd like to think that what happened to you was an isolated incident. The
three year term for the NFC seems to promote apathy, though. And when does
the three year term start? When does it end?
> Your argument is flawed on the one hand you
> are claiming nothing is getting done ( i agree we need to do more) , Then
> on the other hand you want shorter terms for board members to get things
I want a shorter term for the purpose of giving people an incentive to get
as much done as they can in one year, and either running for a second year
to continue if they are doing well or step aside for fresh blood to give it
a try for a year. As an example, the ATV club I serve has one year terms.
We were doing regular rides, and things were fine, but there was nothing
being returned to the community and no activism being done. I ran for VP,
and IMMEDIATELY got us involved in US Forest cleanup and trail maintenance
activities. I have built a relationship with the Jeep clubs, which normally
are very bitter and resentful about ATV guys. I have gotten safety
awareness to rise to the top of our clubs agenda, to the point where
families now feel safe getting their kids involved in the trail rides and
cleanup events. I've even been running most of the meetings since our
president has been caught up with some work related problems that have him
out of town most of the time. I feel I've gotten done what I set out to do,
and will step aside in our April elections for someone else to leave their
mark. In one short year, I got done everything I wanted to accomplish for
our club. I'm POSITIVE if I ran again I would be elected, for any position
I ran for, because I told them what I wanted to accomplish last april and
here we are in December and I feel I've already finished everything I
promised I would do. But I don't have an agenda, I don't have fresh ideas
for the coming year, so I want to give someone else a shot at running the
club. A *lot* can get done in a year with a small club like this. We're
not talking about being the president of a big club like the Sierra Club.
And if the person running for a position doesn't think they can get their
stuff done in a single year, present the idea to the membership with a
timeline of when you think you'll get it done and report back regularly to
the membership on the progress. If it looks like you're making progress,
you'll probably get voted in for another year to continue the plan.
If you're doing your job, you have nothing to fear from short terms. And
the club has everything to gain.
> If anything this type of 1 year or else mentality scares off
> potential volunteers.
How? We had ZERO volunteers in the ATV club. We lost about 10 members when
I put forth an agenda, but we gained 25 more from local community work we
did. Net gain of 15 members. The people who didn't want to do anything
are GONE. The people who are left are great. The forest service rangers
love us. We get the job done. We work hard. Then we PLAY hard. There was
talk of closing trails to recreational vehicles in the parks until we got
involved. Now they are talking about opening up new trails next year. This
is all happening with one year terms in a club that is a tiny fraction of
the size of the NFC, and a club that collects no dues at that.
> Who would like to get grilled like this for
Anyone who does their job has nothing to fear.
> You have called me Bill Clinton in your last note which is
> certainly insulting and have called anyone who atmpts to answer your
> questions juvenile.
You misinterpret my words. I said that your evasiveness reminds me of Mr.
Clinton's evasiveness. These sorts of questions shouldn't have to be asked
in a non-profit. The reports required by the bylaws should be made
available to members by request.
I am formally requesting access to these reports.
Who have I called juvenile that has attempted to answer my questions? Wait,
who has attempted to even answer my questions?
> Your attitude has since the moment you got in on this
It has become that way as the thread continues, because the club officers
refuse to share information in a forthcoming way with the members.
> IMO you have an axe to grind so why don't you come out and say what it
I did not have an axe to grind before. The thread progressed, the hostility
aimed at me has escalated, and my issues have been dodged. My axe to grind
is that as a 501c3 our finances are supposed to be open. Our bylaws also
demand monthly financial reports by the secretary. I am asking for
accountability and follow through, and this is being met with resistance and
> Do you think I'm embezzling NFC funds?
No. And if you weren't, you would have no reason to deny my requests.
> Do you think I'm an
> incompetent person?
No. If anything, I have praised your work for this organization in this
thread. I have singled you out as a person who carries this club. But I
have also called you to task as president to provide the membership in
general, and me specifically, with details of club finances. I am very
interested in the success of this club, and part of the success is being
responsible with ANY money we handle. I want to see evidence that we have
been responsible, and that our current policies and programs are proving
effective for any money we spend in implementing them.
> Does the NFC need new leadership that you hope to
No. About the most I am willing to do, as a direct result of this thread,
is serve on an oversight committee to make sure the officers keep up with
their duties, and that the recipients of NFC grant moneys live up to their
responsibilities and report back on their efforts. I am very active locally
in a number of organizations, and freely admit that I would not be able to
serve the club as well as it deserves with respect to the different officer
positions. Also, clearly, the active membership doesn't care much for me
anyway so running for such a position would be futile.
> Please quit beating around the bush. In a SHORT note let me know
> what you want.
(also posted in a seperate message in case my long windedness has lost your
interest before you got a chance to read this far)
I want what the bylaws require of the officers. I want accountability for
club resources. I want officers to address my concerns when voiced and
address them respectfully, even if they disagree with my position.
I *propose* shorter term lengths for officers. I propose greater membership
access to club business records, possibly to the degree of establishing an
oversight committee. I am not seeking a position on this committee, but am
willing to serve on it if this is asked of me.