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Re: NFC: Answering R.J.'s questions and asking some more of my own
all of what you are looking for (90% plus or minus)
takes money, which takes more members, that other 10%
takes member input/involvement. From what I can see,
also sitting on the sidelines, there are 3-4 of the
members doing 99% of the work and one of them is
Accountability is fine, quarterly?? Get a life! Theres
not that much money involved, and, thats another
members' total involvement. I know, I am a member of
the AKA, and that requires the efforts of two members
who have lives in addition to their membership plus
their own fishrooms. It would be nice to get a flier
once a year with a simple statement, but I would like
to see a lot of other things much more, its not real
high on my want list.
For my part , if NFC never did another thing then
encourage the keeping of natives I would applaud
profusely. The answer to your concerns is member
involvement, with much more involved, we would have
much more of what you are concerned about, without it
we have what we have. Its that simple.
BP?? Get involved, do it, write articles, spread the
You want results from the ATP? Sponsor one in your
area, and get involved, take the kids on a collecting
trip, follow through with them, give some talks, if
you want warm fuzzies get a golden retriever. I have a
telegram for you from the schools of america, input
there is one of the most unrewarded and unthanked jobs
on the planet.
Chris I share your concerns, but, having been involved
in so many organizations such as ours both
professional and hobbyist for forty plus years, what
we are concerned about is almost entirely the product
of low membership involvement.
We are all here for our interests in natives, but the
quality of what we get out of it, the 'bells and
whistles', are a factor or our input. I am sorry to
say that I have done little in that area myself. I
have a strong interest in endangered and threatened
species yet havenot begun to breed even one of them.
I think that its time that we all got off of our
assets, and got with the programs and came up with
some new ones too.
I would add, get out and get at least one new member.
picking feathers from humble crow.
--- Christian J Hedemark <chris at yonderway_com> wrote:
> R.J. Rogers said:
> > Maybe you can help me. I've searched NFC's website
> but can find nothing on
> > conservation programs other than exotics removal
> which is happening only
> > Florida on a very limited scale by a handful of
> Interesting thing, the ERP. No doubt, it is a
> useful program, but sadly a
> futile one (the exotics are, after all, entrenched).
> Best I can figure, it
> has potential to be self sufficient or even
> profitable through sale of
> captured exotics, though I know of no accessible
> figures that the members
> can get at to see which direction the money is
> flowing with regards to the
> Florida ERP. I personally would be interested in
> having any officer of the
> NFC post a financial report to the members to see
> where the money is going
> (and how much is coming in, at that).
> > I've been lurking
> > this list for awhile and almost all you ever talk
> about is aquariums and
> > catching fish to put in them, and selling fish and
> aquarium supplies in
> > auctions.
> The NFC is still a very young organization. Right
> now, with limited
> resources available and even more limited
> volunteers, I don't think a lot of
> people are willing to step forward and take
> leadership positions. Many
> people, including myself, have offered in the past
> to get more active
> locally but not in a leadership capacity. Between
> my career, my ministry,
> and my growing family I don't want the
> responsibility right now of leading a
> local activist group. BUT I would be willing to
> work for & with such a
> group if it existed. I get the vibe that this may
> be the case for a large
> portion of our members.
> Also, I think a large portion of our members are
> simply aquarists and have
> no interest in doing more than collecting & keeping
> natives. It's not a
> knock against them, but an observation that our
> organization includes people
> with many different interests.
> > Rice himself said that members were abusing the
> NFC just to get
> > fish which goes to show where there true interests
> lie. There is no talk
> > habitat restoration, captive breeding of
> endangered species, reducing
> > pollution, dam removal, etc.
> Well there is a breeders club but for all I can tell
> it never got off the
> ground. I bought a bunch of fish in an auction
> early this year and donated
> that box to the breeders program. I never heard
> back from them if the fish
> even shipped (but my check was cashed!) which left a
> bad taste in my mouth.
> They may be doing something, I don't know, but if
> they are it is a secret!
> I don't think the NFC will ever be unified on the
> political front. This
> list has errupted into debate in the past over such
> issues and our members
> have many different ideas on the right approach to
> environmental issues. If
> the NFC took up the mantle of trying to lobby
> legislators, I think the
> membership would drop off sharply.
> > The Adopt-a-Tank program is nice but isn't that
> > just a program for Marineland to get more kids
> hooked on the aquarium
> No. The AAT program predates Marineland's
> involvement with the NFC. Prior
> to Marineland, membership $$$ were going towards
> equipping tanks.
> However, this has also been a disappointment. For
> all of the $$ that has
> gone out (how much, I don't know) we have seen
> almost nothing in return. No
> articles, web pages, etc. There were some web pages
> up before but I think
> several went down or fell out of maintenance. I
> don't know how many kits
> Marineland has kicked in, but still the flow of $$$
> seems to be an empty
> hole from which we harvest nothing.
> See a pattern? Money, supplies, livestock, and
> effort flows like a river
> here, with nothing coming back to tell us what
> happened. You and I as
> members send in our annual dues. We get newsletters
> a few times a year that
> are put out by a couple of people who could probably
> use a lot more help to
> build more content. We get to see money thrown back
> into the NFC from all
> of these auctions, associate programs on the web
> site, and other sources.
> We hear of or see evidence of money flowing from the
> membership coffers into
> other projects, like AAT and maybe to a lesser
> extent the breeders program.
> But what ever comes back upstream?
> What I would like to ask for here is accountability.
> If a member sends $$ to the NFC in the form of
> membership dues, the members
> should have the courtesy of quarterly financial
> reports to show what's
> coming in and where it is going out. If the NFC
> sends those membership $$
> to the Breeders Program, the Breeders Program should
> kick back reports to
> the membership of what is being done with this R&D
> money. AAT participants
> should send in semi-annual reports on their efforts.
> I think any teacher
> involved in AAT should require their students to
> each write an article about
> a subject directly linked to what they learned
> through AAT, and those
> articles should be submitted to the NFC. It's all
> about accountability.
> Give the membership warm fuzzies that all this $$$
> going into things is
> having a positive impact.
> Going to the Breeders Program page (not picking on
> anyone, but just using an
> example) I observe a few things:
> * Participants are supposed to write up life
> histories and submit them to
> the articles database. I see a lot of Robert Rice
> articles, and a few
> others, but not anywhere near what I would expect to
> see from a BP that is
> getting free $$, free fish, and possibly free fish
> * The BP is supposed to somehow be involved with
> auctions. I haven't been
> watching too closely so I may have missed a couple
> here and there, but I
> think the fishes we're seeing in the auctions are
> all wild caught, no? Or
> at least the vast majority of them are. Where are
> the BP spawned fish?
> Also, what happens when people like me donate boxes
> of fish to the BP?
> Where did they go? Who got them? Have they had any
> success? I don't even
> know if the guy I bought them from shipped to anyone
> (emails enquiring about
> this went unanswered). In any case, the BP is
> either recieving $$ from the
> auctions or free fish. What is being done with
> * I see a banner ad on this page for "Jonah's". How
> much $$$ has the NFC
> gotten from this relationship, and where did it go?
> > NANFA may be a hobbyist group but looking at info
> on the NANFA page I see
> > that they are spending money on research and
> conservation type programs.
> To be fair, they are much larger and older. Though
> I do have to wonder why
> the NFC can't do more.
> But back when I was checking out both clubs, some of
> the officers of NANFA
> were being pretty juvenile about one of NFC's
> officers over some old feud
> between them, and trying to slam the NFC to keep me
> from joining. I went to
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