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Well ohh so Long ago when I started the NFC the ERP was an idea with no
practicall experience and the Mason Dixie seemed a reasonable cut off
point. Of course 2 years later and a bit wiser I see that as arbitrary
and impractical cut off...SO I will be redoing the ERP site a bit to more
clearly reflect the point of the ERP wich is removal of exotics wherever
and however people can :)

Heres what the ERPs job is...removal of exotics period. If we can find
commercially viable reasons to do it all the better. I would be thrilled
to see big bussiness come in to harvest Tilapia from Florida. Until then
we will pull em out by the handfull.some day perhaps they will be pulled
by the trawl full :)

Our focus is on fish and should remain there. To focus on plants, animals
etc would be way out of our mandate and totally overwhelming our small
volunteer base.. However if an ERT makes some extra money shipping plants
exotic and native to aquarium societies and the like I am all for it as
long as it is done responsibly

Robert Rice
Save those Fishes,  Join the Native Fish Conservancy
Love those gartersnakes? visit

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 18:30:33 -0400 "Paul Sachs"
<deano at aquaculturestore_com> writes:
> I don't think the idea should be enforcement, but a code of ethics.  
> The
> point is removal.
> Would be an interesting research subject to find out which States, 
> if any,
> have a no-release policy regarding 'foreign' organisms.  It's 
> probably
> posted somewhere.  I know Florida is fairly adamant about putting 
> in
> anacheris :)(I think that's the one clogging our byways.)
> I think the policy is fairly clear on the ERP page, which implies 
> removal as
> the primary concern, and whether they are eaten, sold, or euthanized 
> is
> actually a by-product of removal.
> A code of ethics for aquarists would be a good idea as far as sales 
> go.
> A recipe book would also be appropriate (I think there are a few 
> recipes on
> the NFC site).
> And, methods for euthanization should be there as well which I know 
> would
> include standard fishing practices such as a fishing license, 
> appropriate
> fishing gear, and any other applicable laws regarding harvesting 
> and
> handling.  (I believe some of this is also covered under "follow 
> the
> applicable State Laws".
> As far as territory goes for shipping -  An aquarium is an aquarium 
> wherever
> it lie.... Of course, when I first read the "Mason Dixon line" I 
> took it as
> a funny :)  I still do.  I wouldn't mind getting breeder sized fish
> personally.  And Titusville is only a few hours South.  So, I'd hate 
> to be
> excluded from picking up some breeder sized fish just because I live 
> in
> Florida...
> Paul
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Sachs Systems Aquaculture
> and Web Presence
> 1185 Thompson Bailey Road
> St. Augustine FL  32084
> PHONE:  (904) 824 - 6308
> EMAIL:  Mailto:deano at aquaculturestore_com
> web  :  http://www.aquaculturestore.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~END~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-nfc at actwin_com [mailto:owner-nfc at actwin_com]On Behalf 
> Of
> Doug Dame
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 3:31 PM
> To: nfc at actwin_com
> Subject: Re: NFC: ERP IS BACK!!!
> Luke (mcclurgl at washburn_edu) wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> ...question: How do you "enforce" this restriction?
> Ten generations down the line, who knows what fish
> came from where and what grandpa promised to
> whom?  The idea shows thought, but I feel is totally
> unworkable.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Point well taken, this is not "enforceable" in any reasonably 
> practical way,
> it's effectiveness would clearly depend on an honor system / moral
> commitment on the part of the recipients of ERT-provided exotics.
> However, the current "re-distribution of fish rule" implies that we 
> take
> care of this issue simply by shipping (southern) exotic fish north 
> of the
> Mason Dixon line. Enforcement by presumed biology, I guess. That 
> doesn't
> seem to offer a very good level of environmental protection in my 
> admittedly
> amateur opinion. In many cases we seem to have these problems with
> nonindigenous species precisely because we didn't understand the
> bio-implications or adaptability of critters that were 
> intentionally
> introduced with nominally good intentions. To paraphrase the chaos 
> theory
> character from Jurassic Park, "Life will find a way."
> A somewhat extremist view would be to decide that any and all 
> nonindigeous
> critters collected by NFC recognized ERTs will be (humanely) killed, 
> on-site
> or as soon as is reasonably possible. This would presumably cut down 
> on the
> "feral recidivism" rate. This seems extreme to me, we could be 
> killing
> ERT-caught U.S. specimens of some fish at the same time that LFS 
> and
> consumer demand is causing the continued wild-capture of the same 
> species in
> the Amazon or elsewhere.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Ten generations down the line, who knows
> what fish came from where and what grandpa
> promised to whom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Well, my answer to that is that ten generations down the line, I 
> desperately
> hope that we are not tracking "this fish came from a restricted use
> parentage, but these two over here didn't."   I hope by then we'll 
> have
> elevated the general level of public awareness on the issue, through 
> use of
> our unenforceable "no re-release" policy etc., to the point that 
> will accept, as an article of unquestionable faith, that WE NEVER 
> Doug Dame
> Interlachen/Gainesville FL

Robert Rice
Save those Fishes,  Join the Native Fish Conservancy
Love those gartersnakes? visit