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Re: KillieTalk Digest V2 #1269
Hi Fellows: My best wishes in the next holidays,and I expect in continous
contact to this excellent forum The Killie Talk Digest.Special regards to my
good friend Bill Shenefelt!
Juan Olcese
Buenos Aires-Argentina S.A.
KillieTalk Digest wrote:
> KillieTalk Digest Friday, December 24 1999 Volume 02 : Number 1269
>
> In this issue:
>
> sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
> Re: sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
> Re: sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
> Re: sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
> Re: fishroom advice
>
> See the end of the digest for information on unsubscribing from the
> KillieTalk mailing list and on how to retrieve back issues.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 16:53:19 EST
> From: MarcAPI at aol_com
> Subject: sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
>
> Julian,
> I've been down the road you are on. It is occasionally necessary to
> sterilize tanks and equipment to protect your fish collection. I'm sure
> there are others who will explain how they sterilize or oxidize their own
> equipment with the harsh chemicals you mentioned. I've tried some of these
> too. Bleach is my chemical weapon of choice. Sponges and nets may be ruined
> though. I use isopropyl alcohol in a mist bottle to spray nets and siphon
> tubes if trying to sterilize between tanks. It makes me feel like I tried at
> least.
>
> I found that my whole hobby suffered when I agonized about keeping things
> sterile. In practice, fish health suffered because it became such a pain to
> clean, maintain, and water change my tanks. Favor the good things in your
> aquariums to minimize the bad. Healthy plants and healthy filters promote
> healthy bacterial communities. You can even supplement the healthy forms of
> bacteria with some water conditioners. Can you eliminate "bad" bacteria?
> Probably not, because most bacterial pathogens are not obligate fish
> pathogens. You may have more luck getting good bacteria to out compete the
> bad ones when the fish are healthy.
>
> Marc Smith
>
>
> << Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 15:11:17 -0000
> From: "julian haffegee" <thebomb at clara_co.uk>
> Subject: sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
>
> Hello all
> I want to improve the hygiene in my fishroom. I seem to get mixed
> advice. I am not so interested in velvet etc, more things that can cause
> adult onset belly sliding- bacteria/viruses can anyone tell me how they
> sterilise all the above (wrt bacteria/viruses). For nets and tanks I
> normally use hot water (hottest tap water), but does this kill everything?
> How much does bleach kill? What are pottasium permangenate and alum good
> for? (what is alum anyway?). I normally use hot water on filters too, but I
> am always short of fully mature filters. Can I kill off all 'bad' bacteria
> in an empty tank/filter without stripping it all down? What about viruses?
> Can they survive long without a host?
>
> How long would you have to leave which pathogens without a host to kill
> them off?
>
>
> any help appreciated
>
> thanks Jules >>
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 15:17:28 -0800
> From: Jeremy Adams <killifish at home_com>
> Subject: Re: sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
>
> > >
> > > Hello all
> > > I want to improve the hygiene in my fishroom. I seem to get mixed
> > > advice. I am not so interested in velvet etc, more things that can cause
> > > adult onset belly sliding- bacteria/viruses can anyone tell me how they
> > > sterilise all the above (wrt bacteria/viruses).
> >
> > I use more nets than I need and let them get *really* dry between uses. That
> > gets almost as many pathogens as true sterilization without taking any time
> > and destroying the nets.
> >
> > Drying cleaned tanks 100% in the sun is most effective with least time and
> > work.
> >
> I believe there are lots of pathogens that do form cysts that are
> completely resistant to heat and drying. I am not sure which of the
> aquariums strains are, but lots of human pathogens are.
>
> > > I normally use hot water on filters too, but I
> > > am always short of fully mature filters. Can I kill off all 'bad' bacteria
> > > in an empty tank/filter without stripping it all down? What about viruses?
> > > Can they survive long without a host?
> >
> > Washing out all organic gunk and completely drying it out is effective, but
> > there is no way to sterilize and keep the "good" bacteria that convert
> > ammonia. Soaking in a 5% bleach solution is pretty good if the materials can
> > take it without too much damage (most plastics can't). Soaking in dechlor
> > will then be needed to get rid of the chlorine, tho. IMHO, it is more
> > dangerous than bacteria or virus.
> >
> Wright is right here. 5% bleach solution is confusing for some to figure
> out. An easier method which will kill all (maybe that should be most)
> bacteria and "kill" virus's is 1 part bleach to 19 parts water. That is
> the solution that we use in a laboratory where work on pathogens is
> done. We do use stronger disinfectants however for more virulent
> bacteria. You can keep a small pail in your fish room and keep your nets
> in that. It is a week enough solution that it doesn't seem to degrade
> inorganic materials such as synthetic nets.
>
> bill wrote:
>
> > Hot water will definitely kill the bacteria but will leave a number of
> > viruses alone.
> >
> Not completely true. Temperature to kill bacteria is also dependent on
> time and pressure. Tap water temps are not hot enough. I believe the
> normal killing temp/time at normal pressure is 30 minutes at 145 F. That
> still will leave many cysts alone.
>
> I think that the overall best thing to do is to keep health fish and
> don't worry about them. Wrights quarantining is a good idea.
>
> I think it is to easy to get all caught up in the hype about disease and
> our pets (and us) a healthy immune system is the best defense against
> many of these bad bugs. I think these sterilization practices are good
> only if you have recently just had a bad outbreak in a particular tank.
> Then treat that tank with special care. Treat the rest as normal.
>
> Jeremy
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> If your willing to see a little bit of advertisement.
> You can make money off the web! GO TO:
> <http://ucs.orst.edu/~adamsjer/money.html>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 23:56:44 -0000
> From: "julian haffegee" <thebomb at clara_co.uk>
> Subject: Re: sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
>
> Thanks all,
>
> I was under the impression bleach did not kill glugea- is this definately
> not the case? This is not really an issue, as it is not what I am fighting
> right now.
> wrt adult onset belly sliding- I agree with you all that maintaining
> clean water is the best thing I can do, however, it always seems to me my
> newest and
> rarest fish, who always get the most livefood, most space, most water
> changes,
> and generally most care suffer most. I've missed water changes here and
> there on many tanks of fish, and had no problems. Maybe I stare at them too
> much.....
> I considered that maybe I was feeding too rich food (too many
> whiteworms?) too often, coupled with too
> many filter sterilisations (hence lack of filtration?). Also it is always to
> fish aged between 1-3 months- older than this and it doesn't happen.
> Probably the age where I move from bbs to other foods (or maybe the age I
> move them to a new tank with a newly setup filter?).
>
> One thing is for sure, this isn't happening to my neglected fish (they do
> fine :) ), and often occurs in one tank and not at all in others
>
> cheers again
>
> jules
> - -----Original Message-----
> From: Wright Huntley <huntley1 at home_com>
> To: killies at mejac_palo-alto.ca.us <killies at mejac_palo-alto.ca.us>
> Date: 23 December 1999 17:13
> Subject: Re: sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
>
> julian haffegee wrote:
> >
> > Hello all
> > I want to improve the hygiene in my fishroom
>
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 17:46:39 -0800
> From: Wright Huntley <huntley1 at home_com>
> Subject: Re: sterilizing tanks, plants nets and filters
>
> Jeremy Adams wrote:
> >
> > > >
> > > > Hello all
> > > > I want to improve the hygiene in my fishroom. I seem to get mixed
> > > > advice. I am not so interested in velvet etc, more things that can cause
> > > > adult onset belly sliding- bacteria/viruses can anyone tell me how they
> > > > sterilise all the above (wrt bacteria/viruses).
> > >
> > > I use more nets than I need and let them get *really* dry between uses. That
> > > gets almost as many pathogens as true sterilization without taking any time
> > > and destroying the nets.
> > >
> > > Drying cleaned tanks 100% in the sun is most effective with least time and
> > > work.
> > >
> > I believe there are lots of pathogens that do form cysts that are
> > completely resistant to heat and drying. I am not sure which of the
> > aquariums strains are, but lots of human pathogens are.
>
> No disagreement there.
>
> I was referring primarily to the ones that had given me grief over the
> years. Bacteria causing fin rot, tuberculosis, and most internal bacterial
> infections that cause dropsy and air-bladder failure seem to not survive the
> treatment I follow and suggest. The cyst-forming problems tend to be higher
> life forms that were specifically ruled out in the original question, like
> Velvet.
>
> >
> > > > I normally use hot water on filters too, but I
> > > > am always short of fully mature filters. Can I kill off all 'bad' bacteria
> > > > in an empty tank/filter without stripping it all down? What about viruses?
> > > > Can they survive long without a host?
> > >
> > > Washing out all organic gunk and completely drying it out is effective, but
> > > there is no way to sterilize and keep the "good" bacteria that convert
> > > ammonia. Soaking in a 5% bleach solution is pretty good if the materials can
> > > take it without too much damage (most plastics can't). Soaking in dechlor
> > > will then be needed to get rid of the chlorine, tho. IMHO, it is more
> > > dangerous than bacteria or virus.
> > >
> > Wright is right here. 5% bleach solution is confusing for some to figure
> > out. An easier method which will kill all (maybe that should be most)
> > bacteria and "kill" virus's is 1 part bleach to 19 parts water. That is
> > the solution that we use in a laboratory where work on pathogens is
> > done. We do use stronger disinfectants however for more virulent
> > bacteria. You can keep a small pail in your fish room and keep your nets
> > in that. It is a week enough solution that it doesn't seem to degrade
> > inorganic materials such as synthetic nets.
>
> Two objections, here.
>
> Sodium hypochlorite (Chlorox o/e) breaks down and the chlorine is lost to
> the air in a few days, at most. [A poorly rinsed net is a hazard in our
> small killy tanks, come to think of it.] The stink may not bother you.
>
> Second, your nets will not last long in that solution if you do keep it
> fresh.
>
> I decided some years ago that the improvement over just drying wasn't worth
> the replacement bill for weakened nets or the lost rare fish that fell
> through the hole and became a dust ball before being found. As said before,
> that's just me.
>
> >
> > bill wrote:
> >
> > > Hot water will definitely kill the bacteria but will leave a number of
> > > viruses alone.
> > >
> > Not completely true. Temperature to kill bacteria is also dependent on
> > time and pressure. Tap water temps are not hot enough. I believe the
> > normal killing temp/time at normal pressure is 30 minutes at 145 F. That
> > still will leave many cysts alone.
>
> Actually that's way too low and short for some pathogens. That's why
> autoclaves often go above atmospheric pressure to get well above 212F.
>
> >
> > I think that the overall best thing to do is to keep health fish and
> > don't worry about them. Wrights quarantining is a good idea.
>
> After wiping out almost all my fish, back in the days when we never changed
> water, I decided it is essential. [I caught some damnbusia from a local pond
> and killed the only specimens of a rare dace in captivity with the resultant
> fin-rot epidemic (along with nearly all my other fish).]
>
> >
> > I think it is to easy to get all caught up in the hype about disease and
> > our pets (and us) a healthy immune system is the best defense against
> > many of these bad bugs. I think these sterilization practices are good
> > only if you have recently just had a bad outbreak in a particular tank.
> > Then treat that tank with special care. Treat the rest as normal.
>
> Amen! Brother Jeremy does speak the true gospel!
>
> Wright
>
> - --
> Wright Huntley, Fremont CA, USA, 510 494-8679 huntleyone at home dot com
>
> "DEMOCRACY" is two wolves and a lamb voting on lunch.
> "LIBERTY" is a well-armed lamb denying enforcement of the vote.
> *** http://www.self-gov.org/index.html ***
> - ---------------
> See http://www.aka.org/AKA/subkillietalk.html to unsubscribe
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 00:37:50 -0600
> From: "Scott Davis" <unclescott at prodigy_net>
> Subject: Re: fishroom advice
>
> Just a small tag on to what Bill has suggested ...
>
> .....Third run at least a cold
> > water line into the fishroom possibly through a filter or an RO unit
> feeding
> > a 32 gal rubbermaid garbage can with a pond pump and pvc hose for water
> > changes. Stick a submersable heater in the reservoir since it is sitting
> on
> > the cold concrete floor....
>
> Remember those broken shipping boxes? Put a layer or three of the styrofoam
> under the holding reservoir if you don't raise it on a wooden stand. You
> have other plans for that broken box? Come on now ... you can only make so
> many mops. ;)
>
> All the best and Merry Christmas!
>
> Scott
>
> - ---------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of KillieTalk Digest V2 #1269
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