First,what I said about the AKA site was it was not user
friendly...meaning you may know what it is supposed to do or where something is..I've just
been to the site for the first time in a long time..still find it
confusing,too busy and still can't find stuff......and we've been members a long
time...new people would have no clue....It was not taking a personal shot at
you or the site,but everytime someone questions a decision or suggests
something different, that's how it is taken ... we are not stupid,yet we are
treated that way..if we don't get something, we don't get it...you MIGHT want
to make it more simple..........People tell you they joined because of
Killietalk, they obviously don't know what they are talking about...we told you
we talked to people who learned about killies from killietalk,they are also
apparently mistaken . The blue with white lettering is hard to
read....and lets note this was told to you by one of your moderators who is
supposed to read what's going on. He can't see white on blue......how about
blue or black on white...The right hand side of the screen is cut off..and
I still cant find things......We said we like killietalk because it is
easy to use...no sign in ...no jumping hurdles to get where you want to be
I told you I have been a moderator on active forums....that regularly die
out...lose track of their people...and constantly have to push and pull for
participation. Everytime we tell you something we are told that you
don't think that's true. People have been telling the board things for
years....but if we want things to change or to stay the same because it
works, we are either stupid,mistaken,or we are trouble makers or trolls. I
use my name everytime....I am really tired of the bull crap.....Try LISTENING
to people for once....Thank you....please excuse my abrubtness..I'm
getting really tired of being pissed off........Kurt Bihlmayer
In a message dated 8/10/2009 11:06:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
killietalk-request at aka_org writes:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Subject: Re: Loss of Killitalk (Anubias Design)
2. Thank you Mark! (Stuart Scott)
3. Re: Subject: Re: Loss of Killitalk (Stuart Scott)
4. Re: Comments on killietalk vs forums (Ken)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:38:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anubias Design <anubiasdesign at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Subject: Re: Loss of Killitalk
To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
Allen,
If the mood of the membership is to switch to a different mailing list
format, I think we'd be better served to start a new group.? I took a look at
the one you suggested and it hasn't had a post since April.? Folks moving
from KT to that group would probably overwhelm it.?
Mark
--- On Mon, 8/10/09, Allan Semeit <azkillie at cox_net> wrote:
From: Allan Semeit <azkillie at cox_net>
Subject: [Killietalk] Subject: Re: Loss of Killitalk
To: "AKA KillieTalk" <KillieTalk at aka_org>
Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:04 PM
There is a lot to like about KillieTalk, particularly it's ease of access
and use.? At the same time, I have often considered unsubscribing because
so little of the content concerns keeping killies.? There has been just
enough of the latter to keep me on the list.???For this I wish to thank Scott
Davis, Wright Huntley, and a few others who I am forgetting and wish to
apologize.
The big question to ask is whether the AKA should continue sponsor
KillieTalk?? If KillieTalk is considered to be detrimental to the AKA, due to the
nature of the postings, and turns off potential more new members (as well
as current AKA members) than it attracts, I believe the AKA should
discontinue KillieTalk.? It appears the BOT has already decided upon that course of
action.
The next question, then, is what options are there besides using the
forums on the AKA website?? One obvious choice would be to set up another email
list.? Some of the old-timers will remember that back in the 1970s, there
were two killie email lists to which you could subscribe - KillieTalk and
another list whose name I forget.? Both were similar in content, at least for
a while.? The second list died an inglorious death largely because of it
lost it's focus and became a gripe site which turned off subscribers
including me.? That said, we certainly have some people on KillieTalk capable of
creating a new email list, if they wanted.? Any volunteers?
Besides setting up a new email list, there is another existing option.?
You could join killifish at yahoogroups_com.? This group sends postings to your
email like KillieTalk. This group is currently NOT a very active and I do
not know Will Griffin who manages it.? Still, if you're looking for an
alternative to KillieTalk, this could be it, especially if enough people
switched over.
Since we do not know when the plug is going to be pulled on KillieTalk, I
might be beneficial to discuss and consider the above options.? Flame
shields up!
Allan from Arizona
Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
Archives are at http://sable.actwin.com/pipermail/killietalk/
Modify your subscription at
http://mailman.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:54:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stuart Scott <sscott255 at yahoo_com>
Subject: [Killietalk] Thank you Mark!
To: Killifish List <killietalk at aka_org>
Mark said:
"As an aside, I frankly can't imagine how any board member can in good
conscience not monitor posts on KT. KT has been the most used means of
communication among AKA members and to not monitor that means that they
are not availing themselves of their most direct means of knowing what
concerns their constituents. If they don't participate in KT and don't
monitor the posts on KT, then frankly they are not qualified to vote on
its future and should have abstained from any discussion and certainly
from any vote. I suspect that if the general membership knew which
members of the BOT do not read the postings to KT and yet voted to
eliminate it those members would quickly find themselves voted off the
BOT.
Mark"
I totally agree with with Mark! I think the AKA needs to rethink how they
go about the running of the AKA! Without a daily mail list that addresses
AKA issues, you as BOT have no idea what the members are concerned with!
Take Care......Scotty
the 3-Day Walk for Breast Cancer
www.The3Day. org/goto/ Linda.Scott (please support me!)http://08.The3Day.
org/goto/ QTPiDIVAS (join our team!)
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:58:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Stuart Scott <sscott255 at yahoo_com>
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Subject: Re: Loss of Killitalk
To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
Mark and all, I would be happy to start a new list on Yahoo. I've had lots
of experience with yahoo mail lists and could moderate a list like this.
Take Care......Scotty
Karlin of Quakertown
http://www.karlin1.com
800.828.7798
The 3-Day Walk for Breast Cancer
www.The3Day. org/goto/ Linda.Scott (please support me!)http://08.The3Day.
org/goto/ QTPiDIVAS (join our team!)
________________________________
From: Anubias Design <anubiasdesign at yahoo_com>
To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:38:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Subject: Re: Loss of Killitalk
Allen,
If the mood of the membership is to switch to a different mailing list
format, I think we'd be better served to start a new group. I took a look at
the one you suggested and it hasn't had a post since April. Folks moving
from KT to that group would probably overwhelm it.
Mark
--- On Mon, 8/10/09, Allan Semeit <azkillie at cox_net> wrote:
From: Allan Semeit <azkillie at cox_net>
Subject: [Killietalk] Subject: Re: Loss of Killitalk
To: "AKA KillieTalk" <KillieTalk at aka_org>
Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 11:04 PM
There is a lot to like about KillieTalk, particularly it's ease of access
and use. At the same time, I have often considered unsubscribing because
so little of the content concerns keeping killies. There has been just
enough of the latter to keep me on the list. For this I wish to thank Scott
Davis, Wright Huntley, and a few others who I am forgetting and wish to
apologize.
The big question to ask is whether the AKA should continue sponsor
KillieTalk? If KillieTalk is considered to be detrimental to the AKA, due to the
nature of the postings, and turns off potential more new members (as well
as current AKA members) than it attracts, I believe the AKA should
discontinue KillieTalk. It appears the BOT has already decided upon that course of
action.
The next question, then, is what options are there besides using the
forums on the AKA website? One obvious choice would be to set up another email
list. Some of the old-timers will remember that back in the 1970s, there
were two killie email lists to which you could subscribe - KillieTalk and
another list whose name I forget. Both were similar in content, at least for
a while. The second list died an inglorious death largely because of it
lost it's focus and became a gripe site which turned off subscribers
including me. That said, we certainly have some people on KillieTalk capable of
creating a new email list, if they wanted. Any volunteers?
Besides setting up a new email list, there is another existing option.
You could join killifish at yahoogroups_com. This group sends postings to your
email like KillieTalk. This group is currently NOT a very active and I do
not know Will Griffin who manages it. Still, if you're looking for an
alternative to KillieTalk, this could be it, especially if enough people
switched over.
Since we do not know when the plug is going to be pulled on KillieTalk, I
might be beneficial to discuss and consider the above options. Flame
shields up!
Allan from Arizona
Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
Archives are at http://sable.actwin.com/pipermail/killietalk/
Modify your subscription at
http://mailman.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo/killietalk
Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
Archives are at http://sable.actwin.com/pipermail/killietalk/
Modify your subscription at
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:01:49 -0400
From: "Ken" <ken_combs at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Comments on killietalk vs forums
To: "'killifish discussion list'" <killietalk at aka_org>
Are you suggesting we be "forthright", "open", and "transparent"?
Karl, pass that cyber doobie this way <LOL> puff puff
KC
-----Original Message-----
From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org] On
Behalf Of Karl Doering
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 11:07 PM
To: killifish discussion list
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Comments on killietalk vs forums
Barry Who brought up the killitalk removal& the names & how they voted.
should be public to the membership??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Cooper" <barry_cooper at mac.com>
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at actwin_com>
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:14 PM
Subject: [Killietalk] Comments on killietalk vs forums
Dear killietalk readers,
Thank you for your comments regarding the decision recently made by the
BOT to phase out killietalk in favor of forums. I would like to make a
few comments in response to issues that have been raised.
First, I am distressed at the nasty tones used in some of the messages
and, in particular, in the personal attacks on me. In recent days, for
example, I have received emails likening me to the KGB, which I, at
least, consider unacceptable behavior. Furthermore, I don't know where
some people get their information, but some of it is inaccurate. I was
not the one who initiated the BOT's discussion of this topic, even
though I do believe and have argued that using the forums rather than
killietalk would be to the benefit of the AKA. Some of you have argued
that killietalk is the main source of our new members. I don't believe
that is true. Surveys that we have done in the past indicate that the
web site is the main way that new members find us. In point of fact, I
think the misuse and abuse of killietalk, which occurs on a regular
basis, tends to discourage potential new members from joining. Those
periods of bad behavior project a very poor image of the AKA. In point
of fact, this perception was the main reason that the discussion was
started. There is every reason to believe that, were killietalk to
continue, similar periods of bad behavior will occur.
The argument has been made that similar flame wars will occur in forums.
It is true that someone can post an objectionable message to the forums,
but forum moderators can deal with such bad behavior more effectively
than we can on killietalk. Such messages can be moved to member only
forums or, if objectionable enough, can be deleted or edited. I know
that some of you will call that censorship but the AKA has no obligation
of publish offensive material in the forums, on killietalk, or in any of
its other publications.
Some of you have complained that the board did not conduct a survey of
the membership on this issue. I will remind you that both I and the BOT
secretary have referred to the discussion of this issue in the BNL over
the last three months or more. I have repeatedly asked for input from
members. Apart from one message posted to the BOT list by an individual
who receives those messages, not a single member has bothered to contact
the BOT about it. There was a discussion of the issue on killietalk some
weeks ago but killietalk is not an appropriate way to express an opinion
to the board. For a start, as has been acknowledged in some of today's
messages, not all BOT members use killietalk. Most of them, by the way,
have used it in the past but left because they were unwilling to deal
with the nonsense that goes on from time to time.
The members elect people to the BOT to make decisions in the best
interests of the AKA. That is what we have tried to do. I very much
resent the implications that have been made that these decisions have
been made to serve some personal interest. The BOT is made up of a
dedicated group of people who strive to make this a better and a
healthier organization. If you think you can make better decisions, I
invite you to run for the 2011 board.
There have been comments to the effect that "the great majority" or
"overwhelming majority" of members want to keep killietalk. That seems
an exaggeration as we have heard from perhaps 25 out of over 900 AKA
members. It is a self fulfilling prophecy that those who actively use
killietalk want to keep it but even on killietalk, a few weeks ago, one
third of respondents stated that they preferred the forums. Only about
20% of AKA members are even subscribed to killietalk, even though more
that 90% have email access. Having said that, a small number of you have
now written to BOT members asking that the issue of killietalk be
revisited. The board will respect those requests and I will, in due
course, inform you of the outcome. Possibly we will seek additional
input from the membership as a whole.
Finally, a number of people have maligned the AKA web site and the
forums. I find those comments very discouraging. Over the last 13 years
I have spent hours every day working on the web site, killietalk and
other AKA matters, taking the web site through at least three total
revisions. That work is often to the detriment of my home life and my
own fish keeping, there being only a limited number of hours in a day.
Although I do periodically get messages complimenting me on the site and
thanking me for what I do for the AKA, I have finally grown tired of
dealing with the insults that I receive from a small, but vocal, group
of members. It is my intention, therefore, to resign as webmaster at the
end of this year, to correspond to the end of my term on the board. I am
disappointed to have to make that decision. I had planned what I think
would have been some good additions to the site, and had even started to
work on learning some additional programming skills to allow me to make
those them. I will also remove myself as an administrator of killietalk,
for as long as it exists. I do regret that these decisions will place a
burden on the 2010 board.
Barry Cooper
--
Barry J. Cooper
Sweet Home, OR 97386
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End of Killietalk Digest, Vol 73, Issue 38
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