Re: [Killietalk] Box sales

[Todd Toerpe <toerpe1 at sbcglobal_net>]

Rich and Ron,

Do you guys have a registration fee just to attend your shows?

Todd




________________________________
From: Ron Schulz <ron_schulz at gmail.com>
To: killifish discussion list <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 12:59:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Box sales

Hi Rich,
We agree that a change to an  80/20 split for both box sale  and auction
would result in somewhat less net profit....at least initially. However, it
equalizes the % club cut  for both ......removing the box sale/auction
arbitrage for equally priced sales with different % host cuts.. Hard to
argue from a fairness point of view. I don't see why we could not allow a
reserve price at auction. Presumably, the seller really wants to sell the
fish but simply wants to guard against a $15-$25 pair  from going for say
$8. We think the box sale can grow as it has at the national convention
where it now can exceed 60% of the revenue of the auction.  We  would still
keep the self sale  honor system with the seller simply turning in 20% of
the total revenue taken in.  What we would really like to see is higher
attendance. Once the fixed costs are taken care of, most of the registration
fee from additional attendees goes to profit. Plus, they bring more and buy
more fish.  Attendance has been modest at best with an average of perhaps
just under 50 registrants per year.  This is disappointing given about 250
AKA members within very reasonable driving distance in the states of (NY,
PA, DE. MD, NJ, CT,MA,NH,VT,ME and OT,QE in Canada)  I don't know the reason
but have to assume that AKA members in the northeast simply are on average
not as dedicated killie nuts as say those in the mid west. Even only 20
additional attendees would  probably produce another $400 profit.... more
than making up for any loss of income due to the 80/20 auction split. .
Presumably we would keep the profits within a reasonable range by using the
extra revenue from an increased attendance base to offer better value to
attendees. Better value could be in the form of lower registration fees,
lower host club % cuts, more and rarer fish for the auction, broader range
of speakers, etc.  But we do try to budget for a modest profit in the
vicinity of $800. So, for instance, don't expect multiple expensive foreign
speakers.  If there are those out there that think this profit level is
excessive or that a profit should not  be targeted at all, I will say simply
.......get over it. Prior to NEW being initiated  by Dan Nielsen and Tom
Grady of UNYKA, there was not one affiliate club in the northeast that even
put on an annual  local show.
..................Ron Schulz........UNYKA......MAKA



On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:51 PM, RW Pierce <rwpierce at att_net> wrote:

> Hi Ron,
>
> I have enjoyed each Northeast Weekend and believe that I have attended
> every
> one since the start.  They have done more than anything else to really get
> me into the killie hobby.  I have been to 2 nationals and they are
> exciting.
> You have access to many more fish and people, but going to a regional such
> as NEW is like going to a friend's house.
>
> The NEW auction split at 70/30 seems to be more like what it was in many
> places when I first got into the organized aquarium hobby.  I can live with
> this.  Over the past decade it seems that more clubs are going to 60/40 or
> even 50/50 splits.  This doesn't seem to deter breeders of cichlids or
> common livebearers as much as it does others.  I believe that there are
> many
> reasons for this, but they don't really apply to the killie hobby.
>
> I think that if UNYKA went to an 80/20 split at both the box sale and the
> auction, the club would end up doing worse financially.  It seems to me
> that
> far fewer lots change hands through the box sale than at the auction.  I
> doubt that changing the box sale fee will bring in much more money for the
> club.  In addition to High Value fish, the box sale is good for the easy
> fish: gardneri and striatum for example.  I have sold many of these to
> newbies at $5 per pair and gotten the chance to talk to them about killies.
> If you recall, some of the easy fish don't even sell at the auction.  So at
> a 20% split you would now ask for $4 from a bag of ocellatum and still get
> only 1$ from a bag of gardneri.  Having the cash in hand and then paying it
> out is alot less palatable then getting a chunk of cash after the auction
> less the club's take.  Even the government knows this, which is why they do
> automatic withholding from your paycheck.  Talk to someone who pays
> quarterly taxes and you will find someone who hates paying taxes!  It is
> easy and painless for me to give Tom $10 or $12 bucks at the end of the
> day.
> Calculating a percentage requires more work for me, and having to pay more
> out of hand is a disincentive to bring valuable fish to the box sale.  I
> think that you would get fewer high value fish at both the box sale and the
> auction despite the better payoff at the auction, unless you allowed a
> reserve at the auction.  You still take a risk on return by putting fish in
> the auction.
>
> Regarding fish for the auction:  I usually put fish intended for the
> auction
> in the show first and most of the fish I put in the show, end up in the
> auction.  I like to support the show.  I think that the show is very
> important so people can see the great variety of killifish.  For example, I
> don't keep nothos, my room is too cool.  But I enjoy seeing and
> photographing the Nothos in the show.  I don't bring fish to the auction to
> make a profit, that is what Aquabid is for!  But I do go to the auction to
> buy fish... usually too many ;-).
>
> So to sum it up:
>
> >From my point of view;
>
> Aquabid is for making the most money possible, which allows me to attend
> the
> convention.  I usually hold back some choice fish for the box sale.
> Box sale is "walking around" money, allowing me to spend more at the
> auction.  I also feel it contributes to the hobby to be able to talk to
> buyers & sellers
> Auction is for buying fish and for selling fish I put in the show and don't
> want to bring home.  Its also nice to leave with a few $$ in my pocket so I
> am not completely broke after the weekend!
>
> Hopefully the basic costs of the convention are paid for by registrations,
> and the auction is where the club makes its profits.  Since the auction
> take
> is variable each year I would not want my solvency based on the auction.
> Maybe this is unrealistic, but I would rather pay an additional $5 or $10
> for registration than have the people who bring the fish pay more.  If
> everyone sells all their fish on aquabid there will be more money to spend
> on fewer fish at the convention.  There needs to be a balance to encourage
> people to bring fish vs the people who only come to buy fish.
>
> See you this fall!
>
> Rich
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
> Behalf Of Ron Schulz
> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:24 PM
> To: killifish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Box sales
>
>
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