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Re: [Killietalk] Box sales

It seems a lot of the motivation for people bringing fish for the fish sale is to make money. That is natural enough, given human nature. In our local group all of the money from fish sales goes to the club and non to those who raise the fish. Perhaps this has caused some people to either drop out or lose interest in breeding fish. I would like to think the interests of the hobby and that of the beginner have higher priority than making money, but I would likely be wrong in making such an assumption. 

Roger
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sanford Binder" <sandy_binder at yahoo.com> 
To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Box sales


Hi Guys,
Remember you don't have to go to the bother of sending out fish and the savings on time on your end and the cost and trouble of mailing. You brought you fish for sale to move them and get enough for those two pairs to buy one you really want. A buck a bag for anything under $7 and two for anything over $12 could serve as another guideline. 

Sincerely,

Sandy

--- On Fri, 3/27/09, Ron Schulz <ron_schulz at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Ron Schulz <ron_schulz at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Box sales
To: killietalk at aka_org
Date: Friday, March 27, 2009, 5:29 PM

Hi Guys,
My take on box sales at local or regional shows is that they should
provide fair value for all involved......that being the buyer, seller, and
the venue providing host club.
Obviously, fair value to the buyer and seller is achieved if the large
majority of fish offered in the box sale gets sold.
This means that the seller, given the known host club split set a fair value
price for him as well as the buyer.
The question then is what is fair value to the host club that provides the
venue ....bringing the buyer and seller together. Having been part of
hosting 3 NorthEast Weekends and a national convention, I feel strongly that
the host club get fair value out of box sales. Given that, I think the 70%
seller/30% host club split at the national convention is very appropriate.
It is the absolute prime venue....bringing together the best fish with avid
hobbyists who in general will pay more for fish than on a local level.
Thus, 30% host club cut is fair and still represents better seller value
than at most general aquarium society auctions. For local and regional
shows, I would favor a 20% host club cut as the venue is smaller with
likely fewer bags of fish and less variety.For example, the hypothetical
case at a national convention where 450 bags are sold in the box sale at an
average of $14 a bag, the 30% cut provides about $1900 to the host club. For
a large regional show with perhaps 150 bags sold at an ave $12 a bag, a 20%
cut provides $360 to the host club. For a small local club show with
perhaps 75 bags sold at an average $10 a bag, a 20% cut provides $150 to the
host club. I do not think the $1 (or worse $.50) a bag approach represents
fair value to the host club at any level.
........Ron Schulz.....Dutchess Cty. NY.....MAKA...UNYKA

On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Gary Hoover <gmh52389 at yahoo_com> wrote:


Hi Todd and all,
Going through the 4 points started by Keith...(Keith, are you coming to
ChiKA? I guess I'll find out soon enough, I'll be there tonight)
1) Newbies. I fully disagree that box sales are a disservice. If you
think a newbie is destined to kill the fish, why bother letting them get
fish at all? If they wait for the auction, why bother, they'll just kill
that one too, right? No offense, but that is the worst argument I think
I've ever seen, and a pessimistic attitude like that may well turn off some 
newbies that might be on this list.
Newbies need to get their feet wet with killies, and it's a LOT easier to
see that in the box sale than the auction. Box sales are usually heavy in
fish that are common and easy to breed--just the thing for someone just
starting out. At the very least, the box you buy from has the name of the
breeder on it, and you can take that name down to the show room and go "I
need (fill in name here)", and someone will be able to point that person
out. The first killies I ever got to spawn were bought from a box sale after 
talking with the seller and some other people I knew were good breeders.
2) Setting the price. It is nice to either get what you want for the fish
or take it back home, where it can go on aquabid next week. A good
auctioneer will keep a fish from going under $5 if he can, but maybe you
wanted $20. This might seem like common sense, but: don't tick off the
breeders! They are the ones bringing the fish that we all get together
for! We see it often at our local club auctions...sellers get sour that
their fish don't go for what they want in the auction, so they don't bring
stuff next year. And $180 for a pr of diapterons?...Only on aquabid...
3) Move lots of fish. You can limit what the seller brings, but the fact
remains that the seller hast those fish. Let's say the seller doesn't like
to ship either, so he wont list in the BNL (or maybe he's not an AKA member 
;-) ). Now I've got 30 pairs of gardneri, and I can only get rid of 5,
maybe 10. What do I do with the other 20-25 pairs??? I can't possibly use
all of them to breed, I'll end up with 18,000 fish after 2 more generations 
at that rate! Seems a waste to kill them off, why not sell them to someone
who wants them. Yeah, it's not easy to move 30 pairs of gardneri, but
getting rid of 20 of your 30 is a lot better than 10.
4) Pick the best pair, talk to the seller. No argument on pick the best
pair, really. And sellers can't be expected to "tend their box" all
afternoon. There's fish to see, people to greet, bellies to fill, and,
later, beer to drink (if you're old enough). But see, this is JUST as good
of a place to meet up with the seller. Go have lunch, or have a beer (or
pepsi) with them that evening. It doesn't have to be an interrogation, it
is really best as a casual conversation.
Personally, this is why I like the setup in Elkhart so much. The box sales
are on one side of the room, the show is on the other. Folks are always
around, and can point you to the breeder or at least someone who knows about 
the fish. With a separate sale room, you may have to walk a ways
remembering a name, but that's not too bad. I've never had trouble locating a seller (unless they're off at lunch) to talk to them about fish. And even 
then, I'll catch up with them when they get back.
Not 4) anymore: I think you're looking at this too much as a financial
endeavor rather than a show. Yeah, it can be quite important to have a
financially successful show (believe me, co-chairing Killie Karnival, I know 
what that pressure is like), but you have to make a case for next year's
show as well. Maybe you lost $100 or $400 this year. But folks had a good
time, and word gets around. Next year maybe get a more local speaker, make
sure good fish will be there, and people will come.
Just my collection of thoughts, sorry it too so long!
-Gary
(who will be at the ChiKA show tonight!)




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