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Re: [Killietalk] Virtual Events, Proxy bidding
A recurring theme on killietalk over the years has been member
rationalization of the financial workings of an AKA convention, Invariably,
someone spews out some fact/ some fiction... which is either agreed upon or
disputed by the next person......and so on and so on until one is left
with a large number of disparate opinions of how things work. Could you
once and for all (using all specific relavent numbers from last year's
Syracuse convention) show the incomes and expenses including what % of what
normally goes to the AKA and what % of what goes to the host club. My
understanding of Syracuse was that had UNYKA followed normal procedures, the
AKA would have realized only marginally more than the previous three
conventions. Instead, given the seemingly large host cut, we (UNYKA) decided
to pick up additional costs.......for example..... the trophy grant and then
some. Is this true? If yes, how much would the AKA have realized had we
decided to simply follow normal procedures? How much did they actually
realize? How much did UNYKA make? Even with the UNYKA goodwill, the AKA
realized less profit than from conventions of 5 - 10 years past. I'd like
to see the detailed breakdown which I think would go a long way to clear up
some/many/all of the misunderstandings the membership has on this subject.
If you feel this is an undue burden, I will offer to do it...... given a
clear money trail which must exist.
.................Ron Schulz.........Dutchess County
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Tom Grady <killienutz at killienutz_com>wrote:
> I have no idea exactly what you are referring to, but obviously you are
> somehow misconstruing (not intentionally) the advance given to the host
> clubs with whatever the AKA reports as a loss to the IRS. How figures are
> arrived at by a CPA is a mystery to me. Lets make one thing clear. The AKA
> advances $4,000 to all host clubs. An Advance is very simple - the host
> group gets $4,000 four months in advance of the convention and that is
> expected to be paid back in one form or another (the past several years as
> part of the debit/credit system from auction income). That is what the
> discussion is about - not using IRS forms that reflect things in a very
> different way as far as I can tell.
> In addition all those clubs also received a grant of $1,200 towards the
> payment for the trophies. A grant means it is not paid back. Last year
> (2008) an additional $1,500 was provided to purchase N&RS for the convention
> which brought back over $3,000 during the auction. UNYKA returned over
> $10,000 to the AKA, but one has to deduct the $6,700 from the 10k which
> means the AKA made over $3,000 profit. (These numbers are not exact because
> I did not go back into my paperwork to look them up - UNYKA actually sent
> more than 10k to the AKA.)
> Those are the real numbers about AKA advances and grants for the past
> several years.
> Send me a copy of those forms and I will gladly look them over and see if
> they reflect the reality of how money is distributed vs the way the IS likes
> things reported. One thing to remember, there is alot more to what
> accountants may do with how money is recorded than what we simple folk think
> about and its all legal. I am not the financial folks for the IRS or the
> Tom Grady
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry B." <Texaslarry at stx_rr.com>
> To: <killietalk at actwin_com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Virtual Events, Proxy bidding
> Hi Tom;
>> Then there is more of a problem that we think.. The figures I quoted
>> come from the IRS Forms 990-EZ filed with the IRS.
>> 2005 Form 990 -EZ Received by the Ogden, Utah IRS Office - Nov. 2006
>> 2006 Form 990-EZ Received by the Ogden, Utah IRS Office - Nov. 2007
>> 2007 Form 990-EZ Received by the Ogden, Utah IRS Office - Aug. 2008
>> The figures were not massaged in any way. The most I did was subtract the
>> End of year value from the beginning of the year value to derive the net
>> loss. Any other data came from Statement 2 or Statement 3 as appended to
>> the 990-EZ forms by the Treasurer.
>> Larry B.
>> At 06:02 PM 2/24/2009, you wrote:
>>> From: "Tom Grady" <killienutz at killienutz_com>
>>> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Killietalk] Virtual Events, Proxy bidding
>>> To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at actwin_com>
>>> Your numbers are wrong about the advances for the host clubs. All of
>>> clubs got significantly more money from the AKA, but only UNYKA in 2008
>>> returned a significant amount to the AKA over the past few years after
>>> expenses were covered.
>>> Tom Grady
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Larry B." <Texaslarry at stx_rr.com>
>>> To: <killietalk at actwin_com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 5:51 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Killietalk] Virtual Events, Proxy bidding
>>> > At 03:36 PM 2/24/2009, you wrote:
>>> >>Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:36:40 -0500
>>> >>From: "Karl Doering" <kilikarl at wowway_com>
>>> >>Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Killietalk] Virtual Events, Proxy bidding
>>> >>To: "killifish discussion list" <killietalk at actwin_com>
>>> >><The AKA will always make money but the amount is dependant on the
>>> >>attendees usually.>So if this is the case then the affiliate club will
>>> >>a chance on either making money,loosing money or breaking even.Is there
>>> >>paper work that will tell me what part the AKA plays in helping out on
>>> > Just did a little checking, Karl. The AKA used to advance $2500 to the
>>> > sponsoring club to help with the convention. However, for 2005 it was
>>> > $3500, for 2006 and 2007 it was only $500. Based on that I would >
>>> > that for this year it will be the same as the last 2.
>>> > For the years 2005 thru 2007 the Convention income, to the AKA was >
>>> > $2147 and $2268 respectively. I have no idea what the sponsoring club
>>> > income was.
>>> > You might also note that for the years 2005 thru 2007 the AKA had >
>>> > losses of $19,238, $3,587 and $149,78 respectively. Note that in >
>>> > $11000 of that loss was for an book inventory writeoff.
>>> > Those losses are the main reason why I advocate both an Auction site
>>> > similar to Aquabid as well as live off-site bidding for the convention.
>>> > Anything (legal, of course) to generate income should be considered
>>> > carefully and logically not dismissed out of hand. The balance sheet >
>>> > to start showing more black and less red or the inevitable will >
>>> > The AKA has skirted financial problems in the past. Lets hope it avoids
>>> > them this time.
>>> > Larry B.
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