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Re: [Killietalk] Killietalk Digest, Vol 55, Issue 5
After 35 years of breeding soil spawners I still prefer peat moss. It has never given me any trouble over the years. Now, I've learned to boil it in enamel coated pans for a couple of hours in hard alkaline water and then wash it under the tap until a good deal of the dark color runs out. I have also learned to use alot of peat for breeding and storage purposes -- 2-4 quarts -- on most species. I've learned to isolate the peat in containers in the tank and to collect it every week or two. I never reuse peat. It goes out into the garden. I plan on adding clay as some people now recommend when I next breed species that are not too acid loving and I plan on finally trying the sodium biocarbonate additive in boiling too. Sounds like a great idea and might help in storing gularis and occidentalis eggs. I think people have problems with peat from poor boiling techniques, using too little peat and over drying it for storage. I've learned to keep peat in storage far more moist than
I did years ago and to fluff and check its moisture content regularly. I guess I fell in love with those great old photos of Walter Foersch's with the gorgeous longipinnis diving into the peat to spawn. It made killies fascinating. Seeing G. zonatus and hoignei do it in mass is even more impressive. They explode! Shouldn't sex be fun?
Bobby
lacorte1059 at comcast_net wrote:
Hello All,
Many years ago I did a in depth article on spawning mediums for the annual fishes I don't remember the year.It was a compilation of some of my innovations that began in the 1950's. I used walnut shells on only one species of cyprinodont and that was Cynolebias elongotus. I never used it on notho's. It was a experiment,only. It was not to my satisfaction so it was abandoned. The disadvantage to it was that it produced hydrogen sulfide gas. It was important to move the substrate around to prevent any gas build up It is a organic substance that when placed in water will begin to break down. It has a great deal of lignin in its compostion and tho this substance is a inducement to spawning neverthe less it had too many disadvantages to continue its use. As a skilled craftsman,while in my profession, I came across walnut shell when we used it in the manufacture of epoxy molds. It was a backup material mixed with certain epoxys to save on material costs as well as the reduction
of the
rmal heat due to chemical action. If you have black english walnut trees on your property, as I do,you will find that as the walnuts begin to drop you need to remove them before squirrels begin chewing the husks and spreading them throughtout the spread of branches. The lignin will restrict the growth of many plants. All you need is one walnut,with husk,placed in a gallon of water and the next day you will have
black water,so dark,you will not be able to view the other side. In a few more days it will smell and you will have a culture of infusoria. In early America furniture makers used it to stain wood. The C.elongatus did have protrusions on their eggs which resemble,hooks, making them difficult to view since they were engulfed with the walnut shell. If you viewed them,in a clear shoe box,by side illumination,one could get a better view of them. Walnut shells come in different grades of sizes and have many uses in industry. It would not make any sense to list the many uses.
I mentioned the use of glass beads in the article and it was'nt my innovation. I mentioned Hank Voss as a first AKA er to use it for nothos. At that time Charlie Glut from Chicago was pretty upset over the fact that I mentioned Hanks name, and not him, as being the inovator of that medium. He felt,it was his inovation so I responded to Charlie and wrote a follow up on him using it as well. We don't want to leave anyone out. There is no way to know what someone else in doing in another part of the country.
As Bobby mentioned I use # 3 aqurium gravel for all bottom spawning species,and it works beautifully for me. I have used this method since the late 1950"s. The tannins in peat moss can be reduced if you store it in a tank in which sodium bicarbonate has been added. The high alkalinity will cause the peat to leach its coloring properties. You can then let it remain until you feel that most of the color has been reduced.You can then rinse it to remove the bicarb and the color.. Remember to have air on while it is being water logged. I would like to remind you that this dark water is not a negative thing and can be a inducement to reproduction. Ther are many species,of fish, that require the prescents of tannins for the success of egg fertility. I hope this has helped some of you that have shown a interest in the subject. This is not written to favor one medium over another whatever you feel comfortable with and has given you good results,then stay with it.
Rosario LaCorte
-------------- Original message --------------
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. 2008 Convention Online Registration is Open (Tom Grady)
> 2. Re: walnut shells (Tom Grady)
> 3. Re: walnut shells (Brian Watters)
> 4. AKA site (George & Melanie Caruso)
> 5. Re: walnut shells (LeeH920226 at aol_com)
> 6. Re: AKA site (Tom Grady)
> 7. crushed walnut shells (Tony Terceira)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 15:16:46 -0500
> From: "Tom Grady"
> Subject: [Killietalk] 2008 Convention Online Registration is Open
> To: "killifish discussion list"
>
> The Online Registration for the 2008 AKA National Convention in Syracuse is
> now available on the AKA website.
>
> You may access the convention webpages at: http://www.aka.org/convention/
>
> There is an active link on the webpage to access the online registration.
>
> Tom Grady
> UNYKA 2008 Convention Committee
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 15:20:36 -0500
> From: "Tom Grady"
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] walnut shells
> To: "killifish discussion list"
>
> I have used coconut fiber quite successfully for shorter incubation terms
> 3-4 months max. It does not color the water anywhere near as much.
>
> Tom Grady
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gary Smith"
> To: "killifish discussion list"
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 3:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] walnut shells
>
>
> >I just wish I could get rid of the use of peat moss! I hate the brown
> >colour
> > it makes my water! I also think if I could eliminate the use of peat that
> > I
> > could eliminate velvet forever!
> > Gary
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "ROBERT ELLERMANN"
> > To: "killifish discussion list"
> > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 1:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Killietalk] walnut shells
> >
> >
> >>I used it a bit in the early 70's and did not like it. It didn't wash out
> >>colors like silica sand but it had a tendency to pack and rot under water.
> >>Plus, with some species the shells stuck to the eggs. Rosario himself no
> >>longer uses it. He uses gravel for anything but a peat diver. A wonderful
> >>but time consuming method is to grind up your peat moss into fine dust for
> >>spawning and then sift it through a net in water until only eggs remain.
> >>
> >> Bobby
> >>
> >> Brian Watters wrote:
> >> Many years ago (in the 60s ?) some hobbyists, such as Rosario LaCorte,
> >> tried
> >> ground up walnut shell as a spawning mediun for Nothos. Presumably, this
> >> was
> >> more finely ground than the crushed variety you are referring to. There
> >> were
> >> one or two article written in JAKA-KN at the time about this. I cannot
> >> remember what the general consensus was but I would very much doubt that
> >> it
> >> would have been superior to peat moss.
> >> ___________________________
> >> Brian Watters
> >> 6141 Parkwood Drive
> >> Nanaimo, BC, V9T 6A2
> >> Canada
> >> Ph: (250) 760-0564
> >> E-mail: bwatters at shaw_ca
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
> >>> Behalf Of Gary Smith
> >>> Sent: February 2, 2008 10:04 AM
> >>> To: killifish discussion list
> >>> Subject: [Killietalk] walnut shells
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> I was just at the local petstore and I seen a bag of
> >>> crushed english walnut shells for reptile bedding. Anyone seen
> >>> this or have tried it for breeding nothos.
> >>> Gary
> >>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> >>> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> >>> Modify your subscription at
> >>> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> >>
> >> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> >> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> >> Modify your subscription at
> >> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> >>
> >> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> >> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> >> Modify your subscription at
> >> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> >>
> >
> >
> > Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > Modify your subscription at
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:31:18 -0800
> From: Brian Watters
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] walnut shells
> To: killifish discussion list
>
> If you contain the peat in margarine tubs or something similar (with a hole
> cut into the lids) in the tanks it will not discolor the water to the same
> extent. If the peat moss is spread over the bottom of the tank then, yes, it
> will color the water red-brown. Very often, if the water is becoming
> appreciably discolored it is a sign that it (the water) needs to be changed
> more frequently. I also re-use my peat moss and after a few cycles the
> tannins, etc. have largely been leached out.
> ___________________________
> Brian Watters
> 6141 Parkwood Drive
> Nanaimo, BC, V9T 6A2
> Canada
> Ph: (250) 760-0564
> E-mail: bwatters at shaw_ca
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
> > Behalf Of Gary Smith
> > Sent: February 2, 2008 12:14 PM
> > To: killifish discussion list
> > Subject: Re: [Killietalk] walnut shells
> >
> >
> > I just wish I could get rid of the use of peat moss! I hate the
> > brown colour
> > it makes my water! I also think if I could eliminate the use of
> > peat that I
> > could eliminate velvet forever!
> > Gary
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "ROBERT ELLERMANN"
> > To: "killifish discussion list"
> > Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 1:57 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Killietalk] walnut shells
> >
> >
> > >I used it a bit in the early 70's and did not like it. It didn't
> > wash out
> > >colors like silica sand but it had a tendency to pack and rot
> > under water.
> > >Plus, with some species the shells stuck to the eggs. Rosario himself no
> > >longer uses it. He uses gravel for anything but a peat diver. A
> > wonderful
> > >but time consuming method is to grind up your peat moss into
> > fine dust for
> > >spawning and then sift it through a net in water until only eggs remain.
> > >
> > > Bobby
> > >
> > > Brian Watters wrote:
> > > Many years ago (in the 60s ?) some hobbyists, such as Rosario LaCorte,
> > > tried
> > > ground up walnut shell as a spawning mediun for Nothos.
> > Presumably, this
> > > was
> > > more finely ground than the crushed variety you are referring to. There
> > > were
> > > one or two article written in JAKA-KN at the time about this. I cannot
> > > remember what the general consensus was but I would very much
> > doubt that
> > > it
> > > would have been superior to peat moss.
> > > ___________________________
> > > Brian Watters
> > > 6141 Parkwood Drive
> > > Nanaimo, BC, V9T 6A2
> > > Canada
> > > Ph: (250) 760-0564
> > > E-mail: bwatters at shaw_ca
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org]On
> > >> Behalf Of Gary Smith
> > >> Sent: February 2, 2008 10:04 AM
> > >> To: killifish discussion list
> > >> Subject: [Killietalk] walnut shells
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hi all,
> > >> I was just at the local petstore and I seen a bag of
> > >> crushed english walnut shells for reptile bedding. Anyone seen
> > >> this or have tried it for breeding nothos.
> > >> Gary
> > >> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > >> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > >> Modify your subscription at
> > >> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> > >
> > > Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > > Modify your subscription at
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> > >
> > > Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > > Modify your subscription at
> > > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
> > >
> >
> >
> > Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > Modify your subscription at
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 15:38:49 -0500
> From: "George & Melanie Caruso"
> Subject: [Killietalk] AKA site
> To: "killifish discussion list"
>
> Is the AKA site Down? Won't open for me.
> George
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 16:03:11 EST
> From: LeeH920226 at aol_com
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] walnut shells
> To: killietalk at aka_org
>
>
> In a message dated 2/2/08 3:33:02 PM, bwatters at shaw_ca writes:
>
>
> > Very often, if the water is becoming
> > appreciably discolored it is a sign that it (the water) needs to be changed
> > more frequently.
> >
>
> I have tanks with peat all over the bottom that are automatic water changed
> every day about 10% and the water is not discolored at all. I have others that
> I change the water partially when I get around to it and the water is
> discolored. Obviously it is directly related to the frequency of water changes.
> I do
> not use recycled peat, but I do presoak Jiffy peat pellets and decant (or use
> for special purposes) the peat tea.
>
>
>
> Lee Harper
> Media PA
>
>
>
> **************
> Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
>
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002
> 5
> 48)
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 16:05:24 -0500
> From: "Tom Grady"
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] AKA site
> To: "George & Melanie Caruso" , "killifish
> discussion list"
>
> George
>
> Website seems to work fine for me. I used the link in my previous email
> also to test it.
>
> Tom
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "George & Melanie Caruso"
> To: "killifish discussion list"
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 3:38 PM
> Subject: [Killietalk] AKA site
>
>
> > Is the AKA site Down? Won't open for me.
> > George
> > Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
> > Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> > Modify your subscription at
> > http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 16:11:19 -0500
> From: Tony Terceira
> Subject: [Killietalk] crushed walnut shells
> To: killietalk at aka_org
>
> At 03:15 PM 2/2/2008 -0500, you wrote:
>
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 13:03:38 -0500
> >From: "Gary Smith"
> >Subject: [Killietalk] walnut shells
> >To: "killifish discussion list"
> >
> >Hi all,
> > I was just at the local petstore and I seen a bag of crushed
> > english walnut shells for reptile bedding. Anyone seen this or have tried
> > it for breeding nothos.
> >Gary
>
>
> I have used walnut shells and discussed their use in by book in
> 1973, First, the crushed walnut shells used were commercial and used for
> fine polishing, they were very small. They had to be boiled and washed and
> then they would sink. They worked OK, did pack after a while, but not if
> regularly harvesting eggs. They did not affect water chemistry or
> color. Today Coir i.e. coconut fiber offers the same advantage, dark
> color, does not affect water chemistry in the way peat does. Some Notho
> breeders use it, I use 1/3 coir adn 2/3 peat for all my annuals.
>
> Here is a scanned page where other media are mentioned.
>
> Fine particles of activated carbon Eggs are collected in
> the same manner as with silica sand. The black carbon color enhances color
> of fish. Carbon must be well- washed as it contains much dust. It may break
> down after extensive use.
>
> Glass balls (used commercially for metal polishing or "sand"
> blasting) round configurations which in
> their largest form are 1/5th
> the size of silica sand. The shape reduces the possibility of egg damage
> and does not pack down after extensive use. Eggs are collected by running a
> net through the media. Mesh of the net should be small enough to contain
> eggs, and large enough to allow the balls to pass through. Shaking the net
> slightly will cause balls to cascade through, leaving only eggs. Easy to
> use and quite efficient, its only drawback is the white color.
>
> Crushed walnut shells (used commercially for metal polishing)
>
> Particles are much smaller than silica sand and most eggs.
> Eggs
> are collected the same way as with glass balls. The darker color does not
> affect fish's color. Shells must be well washed in hot water prior to use.
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
> Anthony C. Terceira, Consultant
> 253 Central Pike
> N. Scituate, RI 02857-1507
> U.S.A.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> To join the AKA see http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9
> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
> Modify your subscription at
> http://www.actwin.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/killietalk
>
> End of Killietalk Digest, Vol 55, Issue 5
> *****************************************
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