Re: [Killietalk] Convention Show - New Rules

[Mark Delraso <altos at att_net>]

Hi All,
   
  I am not trying to disprove anyone's experiences, but I have never seen wild killies come in good from anywhere.  In a former life, I have recieved thousands of fish.  Some from farms, and some from suppliers of wild fish.  Killies hardly ever come in good.  Maybe shippers who send few fish in the bag may have better luck, but I have seen more bad luck.  I know Brian is right when he points out that a wild Notho will be larger and more brightly colored.  I want to see that.  I think it is exciting that there could be a possibility to see a wild Kuyuni in a show.
   
  At one of the wholesalers that I worked for, we would get wild South Americans, Africans, and Asian fish of all varieties.  I always had to talk the owner into getting killies.  And I mean talk them into it because of how hard it was to bring them along to a sellable condition.  Lampeyes would come in ok, but usually were full of internal parasites, requiring laced live food. if they would even eat.
   
  One of the points that I was trying to make was with the question of the wild fish being natives?  I have never seen a Fundulus catenatus show wild caught colors in a small tank.  Sure, they may be big " Samson" , but some wild natives will not ever show their wild colors in a tank.
   
  I think we should compromise this rule and have a wild caught class provision.  There are other problems with exhibiting fish that are far more unfair than a wild specimen in the mix.  I have always been against showing fish aquired at one show and taking them over to the next.  That, to me, is worse than acclimating a wild specimen and showing it than winning with specimens raised to show status by someone else.
   
  I have shown one pair of fish, years ago, that I did not raise.  I kept the pair healthy for over a year, while reproducung it, then I showed it and won a second place with it.  I have seen Best of Show take first place at other shows knowing full well that it was purchased months prior.
   
  We all have opinions about this sort of thing, but I am far less offended when someone brings a wild fish compared to showing somebody elses fish.
   
  Do we want to start making it more difficult to generate entries when we need to have more participation?  I know that I am not the only one that would appreciate having wild fish in the show.  I would rather see the fish in it's true glory than win the class.  Is this really a rampant problem?  It seems that we most likely will not often see wild exotics in the convention.  It is apparent to me that this rule concerns natives.  If I am right, this will drive down participation even further.  I guess that I may be more for the fish than the exhibitor.  Yes, I enjoy hearing of the experiences of our best breeders and am well aware of their efforts, which should be awarded, but I do not think we should discourage wild specimens from shows.  I hope that there is way to compromise.  I want to see live wild fish whenever possible.  If hobbyist who have these fish to share with us can participate, we will enrich our hobby.  Are we saying that the standard for a particular
 species is for aquarium strains only?  I would rather use the wild one when possible.
   
  Mark Del Raso

Brian Watters <bwatters at shaw_ca> wrote:
  Mark Delraso wrote:

>
> I guess that a pair of wild caught Nothos won't get judged
> either!
>

No, they would not.

>
> Anyone with experience working with wild fish knows
> that wild fish degrade when introduced to a closed system.
>

Well, I have had probably more experience with wild Nothos than anyone and I
can assure you that is not the case. You will rarely, if ever, see a captive
bred Notho that is superior to a wild specimen of the same species. If a
wild Notho survives the transport back from the wild into our fishrooms,
within 1-3 weeks they will be in a condition where they would knock spots
off any captive bred Notho in a show. Their deportment will also be as good
or better. Wild Nothos do not cower in a corner but show themselves. Many
times, when collecting Nothos in the wild we have commented on the fact that
the fish we were collecting would, without question, win first place in any
show in which they were entered. They have a brilliance of color and a size
that one never sees in captive bred fish. And, as I say, the retain those
qualities in captivity.

I have also collected a lot of wild lampeyes and the difference between wild
lampeyes, in terms of superior quality, and captive bred specimens is even
more pronounced than it is with Nothos. I made the same observation with the
few populations of Epiplatys that I have collected and I would guess that
the same applies for wild caught Aphyosemions and Fundulopanchax, although I
have no personal experience with wild fish of those genera.

I can't comment on NA native fishes as I have no experience with them.

>
> Furthermore, a newly caught, wild fish wouldn't show well
> anyway. A good judge would notice that they would be stressed
> out - no color!
>

As I mentioned above that certainly does not apply to Nothos and lampeyes.
All it takes is a week or two to recover from the rigors of being in a
plastic bag without food for 2-3 weeks and they look just like they did in
the wild, i.e. with very few exceptions, superior to any captive bred
specimen of the same species that you are likely see.
___________________________
Brian Watters
6141 Parkwood Drive
Nanaimo, BC, V9T 6A2
Canada
Ph: (250) 760-0564
E-mail: bwatters at shaw_ca

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