Re: [Killietalk] Can't have your cake and eat it too

["Al Anderson" <augustand at sbcglobal_net>]

Wow ken you are a lot better with words than I am you said." I'm not 
suggesting we take away any/all incentive for conventions, but I am
> suggesting a fish "earned" as a reward for contributing is worth more than 
> a
> fish sold to the highest bidder...I'm also suggesting this is a club, and 
> a
> team effort is more appreciated than anything you or anyone else does
> individually..."

aa
Al Anderson
Breed your fish today before man's
over population kill's the wild supply.
augustand at sbcglobal_net
http://www.wakeupwalmart.com/feature/chinareport/
317 253 2170



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ken" <ken_combs at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'killifish discussion list'" <killietalk at aka_org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Can't have your cake and eat it too


> Glad you didn't take that the wrong way...
> Matter of fact I'd just assume none of us take any of these post all that
> seriously, all of it is bull more or less (I'd rather my post just get
> deleted than cause any real hub-bub)
>
> Barry, nobody here gets "real" around here:
> if you really read my post, it may sound like I take myself seriously, but
> in fact it's the opposite...I can say what I say w/o regard because none 
> of
> this junk really matters...it's about flippin "tropical fish", and of no
> real importance compared to things that really matter like booze & sex...
>
> ...instead a lot of innuendo gets bantered about here...mostly to avoid
> scaring the thin skinned "content readers" away (the ones that want to
> "intake" fish info only and never offer up anything anyway)
>
> Thing is, you guys bring in fish and I don't see em, well at least not 
> until
> their "value" goes down when they become common...so "lets be real":
>
> ...the jest of the "innuendo" being: the fish go to people you know or 
> never
> make it out of the left coast (or so it seems on the surface)...whether 
> that
> claim is true or even a valid b*tch (since they are your fish), the
> distribution mechanism that we get is hardly "efficient" (for whatever
> reasons or real hurdles that exist)
>
> So what I (and others) really want/bitch about is a shot at these fish 
> while
> they are "hot/rare" (and no doubt displace some less "worthy" fish from 
> our
> fish rooms)
>
> ...and this is the sad cycle we are in, let's all be honest: many of us 
> are
> part hobbyist/part consumer: rarity is appealing, who wants, or has 100
> tanks of gardneri and golden wonders?
>
> ...So the "value" of these fish is 1 part aesthetic, 2 parts "shelf life", 
> 3
> parts quantity/availability...and all based on a "collection code"; that 
> is
> as I've pointed out: of no reliable "genetic" value (at least not by the
> time these rare fish are available to the avg. non-convention go'er like
> myself)
>
> And no, it doesn't sound plausible for you to lie about giving away your
> nothos, but IMO, you and the rest of us might be better served if folks
> "earned" these new imports by contributing with some sweat equity (in lieu
> of cash)...it would definitely be a more visible means of distribution, 
> and
> IMO a reasonable risk (at least the new breeders would earn the fish)...
>
> I'm not suggesting we take away any/all incentive for conventions, but I 
> am
> suggesting a fish "earned" as a reward for contributing is worth more than 
> a
> fish sold to the highest bidder...I'm also suggesting this is a club, and 
> a
> team effort is more appreciated than anything you or anyone else does
> individually...
>
> ...and don't worry about "non-fish" talk scaring away readers, those 
> looking
> for fish info only are probably waiting for your next "hand out" anyway 
> for
> their $25
>
> ...speaking of doing what we want with our fish...ever try rachovii on
> pizza?...taste just like anchovies :-)
>
> KC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: killietalk-bounces+ken_combs=sbcglobal.net at aka.org
> [mailto:killietalk-bounces+ken_combs=sbcglobal.net at aka.org] On Behalf Of
> Barry Cooper
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:29 PM
> To: killifish discussion list
> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] Can't have your cake and eat it too
>
> Ken,
>
> I'm not quite sure what your point is, but I'll pick out a couple of
> things. First, yes, they are my fish to do with what I want. What I
> want, besides my personal enjoyment of keeping them, is to distribute
> them in the hobby. I choose to do that by donating them to local
> auctions and to other shows that I attend, including the convention.
> Further distribution becomes the responsibility of those who buy them.
> Incidentally I almost always donate rather than taking a split.
>
> Let me give and example: How many people out there have or have had N.
> eggersi Kilimani TAN 02-15? Well, I know that fish is very widespread in
> the hobby. We collected it and we distributed it initially in the way we
> usually do. Because those who got it also distributed it, it is widely
> available. This is only one example of many that I could give.
>
> It seems to me that the issue often is that people want fish while they
> are rare and have less interest once they become viewed as common.
> Indeed, this view is one of the reasons that fish are lost from the hobby.
>
> Second, I think your idea of bribery, not to put too nice a word on it,
> in order to entice people to participate in AKA-related tasks is
> unworkable. Such a volunteer is no longer a volunteer. I wonder how long
> they'd stay committed once they have the desired fish? I prefer to
> recruit people who volunteer for more altruistic reasons, but that's
> just me.
>
> Barry Cooper
>
> Barry J. Cooper
> Sweet Home, OR 97386
>
>
>
> Ken wrote:
>> Gheez, I'm gonna have to get a new "soap box", this one next to my
> computer
>> is wearing out...anyway, I read this from Barry:
>>
>> "N. rubroreticularis eggs. Although I am not one of those referred to by
>> Brian Watters, I do have that fish and have been successful with it. I
> have
>> distributed some locally."
>>
>> Hmmmm, then I read this: "I have been swamped by other AKA-related tasks
> and
>> haven't got to this yet."
>>
>> ...You've been swamped with work? AND you have N.rubroreticularis?
>>
>> Barry, this post is not directed "exactly" towards you (or to embarrass
>> you), it sort of a general "soap box moment" for the list.
>>
>> Basically, most of us "dues paying members" sit around and beat up on
> those
>> who haven't delivered FOR FREE as promised...I make no pretenses about 
>> the
>> human race or myself...just look at the percentage of dues paying members
>> that contribute time for free vs. those that expect a ROI for the $25
>> bucks...
>>
>> Ever heard of delegating? Or "bribery" or "barter", Look, if it were me,
>> instead of dragging out projects over 10yrs, I'd shamelessly and
> tactlessly
>> use my high value fish as "incentive" to get some friggin stuff done...
>> OR (and just as likely)...I'd sell the damn things to the highest bidder,
>> get some ROI and the hell what anyone thought...
>>
>> ....Either way, I wouldn't infer I'm contributing fish to the hobby, but
>> then say "I do what I want with them"...
>>
>> Just suggesting we can have it both ways and not expect someone not to
> call
>> in to question the true charitable value of these privately collected
>> fish...Just saying not everyone is going to realize the small ROI you end
> up
>> getting from these fish by contributing to conventions or distributing to
>> "competent breeders" or whatever...
>>
>> BTW, nobody's calling into question the work or contributions you give
>> (freely w/o bias)...but if the fish you personally collect truly fall 
>> into
>> the "contributory" category, then I say the heck with the "higher
>> ground/true volunteerism" thing, and go ahead use those fish as man-hour
>> barter and shamelessly "bait" people to contribute... certainly doing so
>> would be a more direct, efficient and visible means of turning your money
>> and your fish into man-hours...
>>
>> Alternatively, I say again: If they are "your" fish, turn em into cash 
>> and
>> be done with it OR if they are "contribution", turn the fish into labor
> and
>> stop all the accusations (true: "open contributions" are semi-tacky, but
>> your contributions are already highly visible)...
>>
>> ...right now your "privately collected fish" are a sorted mix of two
> worlds:
>> your personal property (to do with what you want), yet a contributory
>> "demand" from the hobby for which you receive "some" credit (and little
>> money)...We got no right to bitch about someone else's property, we do
> have
>> a right to bitch about said property if it is spun as a contribution (of
>> sorts)...personally I wouldn't mix the two
>>
>> KC
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: killietalk-bounces at aka_org [mailto:killietalk-bounces at aka_org] On
>> Behalf Of Barry Cooper
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:11 AM
>> To: killifish discussion list
>> Subject: Re: [Killietalk] KCC Newsletter
>>
>> I will be putting the Newsletter on the AKA site soon. I have been
>> swamped by other AKA-related tasks and haven't got to this yet.
>>
>> BC
>>
>> Barry J. Cooper
>> Sweet Home, OR 97386
>>
>>
>>
>> Charlie wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All:
>>>
>>> The latest newsletter of the Killifish Conservation Committee is
> available
>>>
>> upon request, in PDF format.
>>
>>> This newsletter updates the actions of the committee and the status of
> the
>>>
>> KCC designated species.
>>
>>> A copy of the KCC manual is also availabe upon request, in PDFD format.
>>>
>>> If you are interested in joining one of our breeder teams, contact me
>>>
>> off-list for further information.
>>
>>> The current list of KCC designated species include:
>>>
>>> Aphyosemion elberti N'Tui
>>>
>>> Fundulopanchax oeseri
>>>
>>>
>>> Fundulopanchax walkeri GH2/74 Kutunze
>>>
>>>
>>> Funbdulopanchax gardneri Misaje
>>> Simpsonichthys marginatus
>>>
>>> Ep. huberi
>>>
>>> Ep. Species Massana
>>>
>>> Ep. sexfasciatus Sp. "Elon"
>>>
>>> Archiaphyosemion petersi Banco Park
>>>
>>> Scriptaphyosemion liberiense
>>>
>>> Scriptaphyosemion etzeli Yek Bir
>>>
>>> Plataplochilus ngaensis:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Charlie Nunziata
>>> Join the AKA at http://www.aka.org/aka/modules/content/index.php?id=9.
>>> Archives are at http://fins.actwin.com/killietalk/
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>>>
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>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
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